Strategic Leadership Begins with Listening | Transformational Educators Ep. 2

What does it take to turn around a failing school without losing yourself in the process?

In this episode of Transformational Educators, host Dr. Matthew Flippen sits down with Dr. Karen Engle, Superintendent of Clear Creek ISD, whose leadership transformed Clearview, a struggling, at-risk alternative campus, into one of the district’s highest-performing schools. Recognized as a finalist for the H-E-B Excellence in Education Award, Dr. Engle shares how listening, learning, and responding became the foundation for deep cultural change and academic success.

Whether you’re a new leader stepping into a tough role or a veteran facing burnout, this conversation offers a blueprint for how to lead with trust, shift toxic culture, and build a thriving school community from the inside out.

If you’ve ever wondered how real, lasting school transformation actually happens, this is the episode for you.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
• Every student at Clearview came in with a record of failure or risk factors
• Staff culture mirrored student struggle, mistrust, burnout, and hopelessness
• Dr. Engle began her leadership by listening deeply and building trust
• “Quick wins” like schedule changes helped create early momentum
• Removing harmful outside consultants restored staff dignity and morale
• Her leadership model: “Listen. Learn. Respond.”
• Campus went from nearly failing to one student away from exemplary status
• Staff shifted from doubt to ownership of the transformation
• The same leadership approach is now used district-wide
• Servant leadership works when paired with urgency and care

BEST MOMENTS
00:02:28. “They all came into that campus from a background of less than success in school.”
00:03:11. “You have to want to get better. That’s not just true for children. Adults need to want to get better as well.”
00:04:00. “The culture was almost like the kids… a malaise, a feeling of failure.”
00:05:24. “They didn’t give me a lot of credit for that high school background. It was discouraging.”
00:05:49. “I looked for low-hanging fruit, quick wins. One of the first things I did was change the master schedule.”
00:07:02. “The consultant was kind of degrading. It was not okay. So we ended the contract.”
00:09:47. “I said, okay, we can do this. You all are good enough.”
00:10:30. “Listen, learn, and respond. Don’t wait.”
00:12:36. “At the end of two years, we were one student away from exemplary.”

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Transcript

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Today on the podcast. Doctor Karen Engel. Doctor Engel is the superintendent of Clear Creek ISD, where she has dedicated most of her career to building strong relationships and leading with trust and purpose. She was recognized as a finalist for the H-e-b Excellence in Education Award, and her leadership is known for turning struggling schools into thriving campuses through a servant leadership model. Today, we'll explore how she transformed Clearview, an at risk seventh through 12th campus on the brink of failure by listening, learning and responding to staff and student needs. By the end of this episode, you'll walk away with a clear framework for building trust, shifting culture, and leading sustainable change in any school community. Welcome to Transformational Educators, where we help school leaders create lasting change by sharing powerful, real world stories of servant leadership and practical strategies for transformation. I'm your host, Matthew Flippen, president of Graceland University, where we equip school leaders to make a lasting impact. Doctor Engel, I have admired that you have been in this district for a majority of your career and built such strong relationships that now you have been nominated. I think it's two years ago to be superintendent and have been in that role. So fantastic. Congratulations on that. I also know that you are a finalist in the H-e-b Excellence Award. I'm sure there are many other accolades that you have have won, but today we are going to be talking about a campus that you led that maybe was hurting when you arrived in over the time that you were there, that that changed into a campus that was that was thriving in some way. So I'm really excited to hear the process that you guided that through and how you led that transformation. So thank you, Dean, for being here. Absolutely. So the name of the campus is Clearview, and it was a seventh through 12th grade alternative campus. We have a district of about 40,000 students. Wow. But this campus is about 300. Okay. The time 350. And all of this students were basically at risk. They had either failed a grade, failed a state assessment, then, you know, something that caused them to be at risk, multiple discipline issues in debt. So they had to apply to go to Clearview as an application only. But once they were accepted, then we did everything we could to help them be successful. But they all came into that campus from a, background, of, I'd say less than success in school if you were okay. So in a way they'd had of a failed experience. They were struggling and they needed to be there, but they still had to apply. Yes. Okay. Because if they didn't want to be there, it wasn't going to work, so they had to apply. It's almost like, you know, you have to want to get better and you have to want to be successful because it's difficult. It's not their home campus. So they had to travel to this special location. Smaller class sizes. A lot of focus, on the individual student and a lot of counseling support, you know, to help them to be successful. I love that you said you have to want to get better. That's not just true for children. Adults need to want to get better as well. So what was the culture like among the staff when you arrived? I'm fortunately there had some turnover and leadership. Multiple times. The culture was almost like the kids. It was kind of interesting that they felt like there wasn't a culture of success. Almost a feeling of failure. They all. There was a malaise, I guess, if you will, and did not feel like a regular campus. It filled very depressing, if you will. To me, the academic scores were not good. Now, keep in mind, these kids are there because they need to be academically successful. And this the campus was on regular accountability and it was one student away from unacceptable. Okay. Wow. Wow. That's really. Yeah. That sounds bad. That sounds challenging. Yeah. So I can imagine that when you've had leader turnover, when you arrive, the staff may be thinking how long is she going to stay? And so they're probably mistrusting of you and the things you want to implement. Was that what you found? Most definitely. Okay. Very mistrusting. Very, They had no confidence. So my background moving into that position, I've taught high school, and I ended up as a high school principal. But before I went to this campus, I was an elementary principal. So they didn't really give me a lot of credit for that high school background. They're thinking, this elementary lady knows nothing except she's two positive, very, very mistrusting. It was not. It was discouraging. Okay, that sounds like you might have gone home a few nights. Yes. And wondered why am I at this place? I did. Yeah. And that maybe had a shoulder to cry on a few times. So how did you start to build trust? What started the change? Where they did start to believe? Hey, she's not just full of confidence. Yeah. You know, I really focus first on the campus culture. You know, what is it? Realized pretty quickly we were in a bad situation. So I looked for what I call low hanging fruit or very quick wins. What are some things that you can do to turn this around? And one thing I did that summer, I mean, I came in June and I switched the master schedule to go from seven periods for the kids to eight periods because they had all failed. I mean, there was a there was a real concern about academic achievement. So I changed the master schedule and double block some things that they needed more, gave them more opportunity to graduate and get the support they needed. So I did that. So gave a little, little fewer minutes in every class. But enough time and more time for kids to be successful. And then I just really some that we've been do now on the district level. But listen to the today's teachers. I brought those department heads in right away and said, what do we need to do? Kind of brought them together, brought them coaches and said, hey, you know, what can we do to work together? So really, tapped in on what the what the leadership on the campus felt like we could do. And then I started doing some things pretty quickly. I say one of the probably high leverage events, and I didn't plan it. They had a grant, do an organization, and the grant did not give the teachers a lot of credibility. Was it was, there was a consultant that came in and was kind of degrading. And the first time I experienced this, I was really taken aback. I was like, that's not okay. And the grant was for like 50,000. So we had to kind of finish out the contract. We didn't have time for that. I'm telling you, it was not going to be good for the staff. And so after the second time the Grant lady came, I had the staff. Right, just to give a review, a summary of of the experience of the professional learning experience. And I gave it to the Grant lady. It was I didn't even look at it. And it was so bad that they didn't want to come back. We just kind of ended the contract and we didn't need it. It was going. It was bringing them down. I know that's kind of confusing, but it wasn't anything that bringing them, it was they were the people were coming in from the outside and they were disrespecting or degrading the abilities of the staff. And so they felt like they couldn't do it. And the grant people felt like they didn't do it. So the first thing I had to do is like, remove that, grant people that that person, the consultant, it didn't work well. And so we took the money loss and I just said, hey, we've got enough. We're good. And then we started from scratch, from the people in the organization. Sure, the outside wasn't helping. We needed to build them up from the inside. Okay. You know, Karen, I appreciate your sensitivity to culture. And you've mentioned the way it felt when you were there. And part of that is how how, dignified people or, or respected people feel for the work that they're doing. And it and it is something fragile that we can easily be condescending or talk down when really we need to be lifting up coaching, right, versus demeaning. And, and I can imagine how removing a negative, person, from that, who was the perceived expert? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Put one one some people up to you because I would imagine some of the staff was thankful to. Not so. So that was a pretty quick win, a big win. It was very quick with within a be right with you. For you. Yes. And then I said okay, we can do this. So we kind of got the external out. And now you got to build it from the from the people that you have. What can we do to build this up? And really from then on they felt like they could do it, you know, started to say we don't need outside help. Y'all are good enough. That was a message that's so confidence building. And yeah, and I just I mean I happened on to it. I didn't know I was just not happy with the way we were being treated. And so I felt we don't need that. You don't have time. You know, I think that's one thing that I've learned is if you need to do something and it's you can do it. Don't wait. Don't be tied to his schedule. I mean, we live in a in a time where you have to make you have to be flexible and responsive. Yeah. So I would say, really and I go back to three words. Listen, then learn and respond. Yes. And that is almost what we live by at that building at the district level. Listen, learn. And then respond and don't wait. Absolutely. Yeah. I think about, you know, the model that we are framing for this program, this master's in transformational leadership, is really about right. Build a foundation of relationships. What you do through listening. Right. This curiosity of learning, which is the assessment piece we would say, now that you've got some trusted people, let's honestly look at what we can do better. How can we improve? Right. And then what was the third response? Respond let's not. So now let's implement the strategy that we can build on of course reassessing as as we go. But I think I love that that those three pieces are clear and easy. And you said you're still using that today at the district level. We had some we had some culture tagline, and we came in, listen, learn and then respond. Because if you come in and you respond, don't assume you know what's happening. Sure, that's problematic, you know? But if you listen, build those relationships, learn what's happening, then you can make good decisions and usually in collaboration with your team. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, and, you know, the truth is, is that that approach is actually backed by neuroscience about just how people respond. So the brain, you know, children come into classrooms with this same resistance. You don't know me, you don't really have a right to teach it. But once they start to feel safe, which is the listen right and learn aspect of that right, then they start to start to learn as well. So the campus that you're on, was near the the bottom when they were there. And then you said you were there within the two years, two years. And by the end of that time, we will look like this. Yes. And I was we were the lowest rated campus. And then just. Right. Okay. We have 45 campuses. Okay. That's not good for number 45. Yeah. Number 45. But at the end of the or that time, maybe there were, there weren't clear and probably 42, but still we've grown a little bit. But then at the at the end of two years, we were one student away from exemplary or an A okay. And fantastic. Fantastic. And what was the staff culture like at that point? Oh my gosh, they were so happy. They were so bought in. They did it. You know, it was all it was their it was their effort. So it was completely different. And it's really always remained at that level. I moved to, to open a high school after that. But, but the campus itself has maintained that, what I call that sense of self-efficacy for the entire staff. That's outstanding. Now, I would assume they rioted when you said you were going to leave, because I'm sure they deeply loved you at that point. Yeah. It was it was hard to leave because I love that that. Yeah, they say that. But you know, what we've noticed about, leaders that guide campuses through transformation, that sustains. They do exactly this piece that you just highlighted, which is the staff owns the transformation that is occurred. It's not hero driven. Right? Right. That the heroes are the teachers, and the leaders serve as the guide. Right. We're going to guide you through this process with accountability and the other thing. So go with it. But outstanding. How beautiful to hear. Yeah. This story and that you've got to go on and I would assume do this again in a few places. And now at the district level, I would expect that each leader knows that, that you care about them, that you're listening, learning and responding. Yes. We still do it. Yeah. To the fantastic. Well, thank you again, Doctor Engel, for being here and this know I'm a fan. I am cheering for you. And if I can be any of support, please let me know. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. If today's conversation gave you fresh insight or inspired you to lead with purpose, please follow the show and tell a friend. It helps us reach more educators who want to make a difference. For more stories, resources, and tools to support your leadership journey, visit Graceland. Edu. Until next time, keep leading with courage and care. If you want to keep learning about transformational strategies and education, click the next video.