The Real Cost of Losing Community Trust in Public Education | Transformational Educators Ep. 19

When communities believe “the quote unquote school system is failing,” the next question is brutal, “where is my money going, then?” 

In this episode of Transformational Educators, Matthew Flippen sits down with Dr. Andrae Townsel, Superintendent of Hartford Public Schools, to talk about the real cost of losing community trust, and what it takes to earn credibility back through transparency, consistency, and two-way communication.

Dr. Townsel shares leadership lessons from a receivership turnaround, including his “fire, water, and trust” story, and the mindset he believes leaders must carry when people are tightening their pockets and gripping their wallets.

Guest: Dr. Andrae Townsel
Hartford Public Schools
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Transcript

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When you think of tax dollars going into public education, and for the narrative to be that the quote unquote school system is failing, where is my money going, then? That's where that trust is eroded right then and there. That is Doctor Andre Townsville, superintendent of Hartford Public Schools and a nationally respected urban education leader. He believes the fastest way public schools lose momentum is when communities stop trusting where resources go and stop believing outcomes can actually improve transfer. Hey, I'll be honest with you, if you take your eye off me, you might never find me again. So that goes to show you how deep and how powerful trust is. He breaks down how leaders rebuild credibility by working in good faith, staying transparent about reality, and bringing families and staff along instead of talking at them. Where you got to be out there. Tell the story. Tell the narrative. Because otherwise, if you don't tell your story, somebody to tell it for you. Today, he outlines how trust is built through transparency, consistency and two way communication, especially in complex urban systems. By the end of this conversation, you'll learn how to earn credibility, reshape the narrative, and lead change without losing the community. I'm Doctor Matthew Flippen and this is Transformational Educators. Doctor Townsville, thank you for joining us today. Matt. Thank you for inviting me, man. I'm very excited about this conversation. Yes. Yeah. Such an honor. And congratulations on your recent appointment to Hartford Public Schools. Thank you. A massive privilege and a pleasure. Anytime there's an opportunity to serve. Yes, absolutely. Well, I know we were just talking about, the places where you've lived before, so I'm excited to get to touch on lessons you've applied and learned from, your journey as an incredible school leader. How often when you go into places, have you faced this attitude of, this can't be fixed, these kids can't do better on your journey? Well, you know what I mean? That's just the general sentiment. Some of the naysayers of public education, you know, when you think of, tax dollars going into public education and for the narrative to be that the quote unquote school system is failing, where is my money going, then? That's where that trust is eroded right then and there. So oftentimes leaders, whether you come with a track record of success or not, it's always an uphill battle, getting people to believe and, the power of public education and what the tax dollars mean to increasing academic achievement and supporting student outcomes. But it's the hardest thing to do because, you know, we we love our money, we love our wallet. And that those taxes, those increases, you want to see where it's going. But when the narrative is that the system is failing, then that's where the frustration comes where the people are, you know, tighten their pockets and grip their wallets a little tighter because they don't trust that it's going to get better. So the question is, how do you show that it is getting better? And is you really just being transparent? Well, and I'm sure that that, those, some of those challenges related to expectations, children, students can have those on themselves, lower expectations. Faculty can have low expectations. Campus leadership can have low expectations. I'm sure that's a it's a it can be a challenge across the board when there's not been a history of excellence, in the places that you've stepped into, you. I want us to go back to the, Southbridge High School experience that you left in Massachusetts. When you stepped in there, what were expectations like? Not for you, but for those when you entered in before you arrived? Well, that's a great question. Well, let me give you the context. Southbridge Public Schools, currently and at that time, that's when they first went. It went into something called receivership. There were three school districts. Holyoke, Lawrence and Southbridge were three school districts that went into receivership in Massachusetts. And receivership is like an emergency management for me. I'm from Michigan and Michigan emergency management, meaning all of the power went away from the elected board members and went directly to the receiver of the school district, who's also the superintendent. So it was tough going into an opportunity where the constituents did not have a say over the direction of education. Myself, I came from Washington, DC, where I was an assistant principal to Southbridge High School, where I became their principal. And that was a very challenging time because it was receivership. It was a turnaround situation. But what I will say, let me share this story, and this is a leadership tidbit, is fire, water and trust. So fire, water and trust walks into the fires and the person say, wait, hold on, I don't want to get lost. So fire says, hey, listen, if you lose me wherever you see smoke in the sky, that's where you find me. It's okay. What about you? Water. Water. So. Well, if you lose me, wherever you see grass growing, that's where you find me. It's okay. Cool. Trust. What about you, Theresa? Hey, I'll be honest with you. If you take your eye off me, you might never find me again. So that goes to show you how deep and how powerful trust is. And what I learn from that is you have to walk in being a trustworthy person. And whether having a track record of it or as you move forward, working in good faith when you're in good faith at all time, that's a trustworthy outlook. So when I walked into that opportunity, I was just the honest person about where we are with regards to our student achievement and data and where we are with regards to our finances and where I believe we can go if everyone do exactly what they're supposed to do. And by the grace of God, in the course of my time, there, we did have increased academic achievement scores. We did have better behavioral outcomes for our students. It was just a great opportunity. Whereas we ended up in their local paper as turning around the school. And it was a great experience because I just did it working in good faith with like minded educators, bringing our families along and really empowering our young people to take control of their educational experience. And the outcome was excellent. That's outstanding. Well, we're going to dive more into some of the tactics that you that you used there and then how you've applied those at Hartford. Now when you've come to Hartford, was there a similar, situation? Maybe not in receivership, but but from an expectations, state of trust with the community and the constituents? Well, yeah. Walking into Hartford public schools, I mean, there's, a budget implications. I know we're facing a $30 million budget deficit. Also, there's a history or a perception of low achievement amongst our students. When you talk about the large urban school districts in the state of Connecticut, people say that Hartford ranks among the lowest with regards to student achievement. But the problem is no one ever talks about the great things that happens. Yeah, the headlines is always negative, but the good news do not spread like the bad news. So it's my job as a superintendent to highlight the good news, because at the same time, where there's probably issues going on here and there, they're great things happening from young people earning scholarships to colleges of their choice, from young people going off to Ivy League institutions or scoring the highest in the country. With regards to PSAT scores, that's all happening right here in Hartford as well, too. So it's really balancing the story. It's never all negative and it's never all positive, but there's a, healthy balance within there. But I'm so excited because for me, having boots on the ground, we are more positive than negative in Hartford. And that's what I'm hanging my hat. Yes. And it's important to be an advocate for the good things that are happening. Be, be a voice for that. Absolutely. So let's go back to the campus level. When you went back there and when you started there, what did you see as some of the relational barriers that were most affecting trust when you initially arrived? You know, Amanda, the biggest barrier when it comes to relation peace is like one thing I learned as a high school principal is that, I found myself disciplining adults more than students. The kids were easy. It was the adults that were the problem. So the question is, how do you build a team? How do you have that mastermind alliance? Where is one sound, one voice, one direction? And when you do not have that, that's where the breakdown of trust is. You have to have a squad. When you think about a head coach, let's say Mike Tomlin, for example, with the Pittsburgh Steelers, this man has never had a losing season ever. Now he's not won a Super Bowl every year. But he's never had a losing season. So the question is why is he winning or how is he winning. Because the locker room is intact. So the question is as a building leader, where's your locker room? Because a lot of times I always say, if you have a group of individuals as huddling up at the water fountain in the teacher's lounge talking negative, you probably have a losing team. Now, I'm not saying you're going to 100% have everyone on the same page with you. What I'm saying you need a universal population and a culture have to be so positive and so powerful, whereas it's frowned upon for people to get clicks and talk crazy, talk reckless, or to talk negative of that mix. So it's really about that building leader being an influencer of his or her own and walking in with that trust, that influence and that, hel confidence. Excuse my language, for lack of a better phrase. And then that's where the chips fall. Where they may. Yes, absolutely. So tactically, how do you get that at the in the campus with the campus staff? Right. You know, so let me start at a very low level and, and prayerfully, your audience is listening. Here's a book that you probably heard. Not you, but the audience. You probably heard of it. But the question is, did you read it? And it's a book by Dale Carnegie called How to Win Friends and Influence People. And the very basic thing that he talks about in there is, I was really treating people the way you want to be treated. You know, if you treat people the way you want to be treated or and you make people feel important, then the score, everything else takes care of itself. So was really that relational level? Man, you have to. Now, I'm not saying you as the boss or the supervisor or the leader. That's you, everyone's friend. I'm not saying that, but you have to know what's going on with people. You have to tap into their space, get into their lives, tap into their world. Let them know that what they think about or what's on their mind is important to you as well. And if you help them get what they want, I promise you they'll help you get what you want. I love that, I love that you know, I love that you mentioned that particular book, and we actually have incorporated that into our, master's in education leadership because it is a great guide and it is very tactical. It does start with you do need to sincerely love people and care about. Yeah. And if you do have that heart, which many educators do, then it is a natural set of processes you can go through to really deepen those relationships. So when you look, look at what you did at the campus and then you say, well, when the Hartford system is so much more expansive and layers, how do you implement that same, model of, building deep connections? Well, like they say, success leaves clues. And a clue that I found in Southbridge is that you have to be relational with people. So I walk right into Hartford. I don't care what level you have from, staff member all the way up to board member. I treat you as your own individual person. Listening to what your thoughts are, listening to your concerns and your hopes and tapping into that. So there's the same piece on every level, treating people the way you want to be treated, but also investing into other people's interests. Whatever it is, is at the top of their mind. You have to consider, and we think of a board of education, for example, in Hartford specifically, I have nine. Those nine people are individuals with their own constituents. They have their own things that they'd like to see done and accomplished. Now, when I think about philosophically, nothing is that no one is ever doing anything wrong. They just do things differently. So the question is coming to a consensus. I heard you make a lot of money if you can herd cats. So you really have to put them all together and go into a direction and acknowledging everybody's wants and needs and likes and just putting it in one bubble and allowing it to flow in the direction that the consensus is going. That's the bottom line, man. You cannot big dog anybody. You cannot, brush anybody off as if their ideas don't matter, do matter. It matters to them. And because it matters to them, if you're the leader has to matter to you. Now, it's incumbent upon you to articulate and interpret and give all the best information that you have based on what you know. But you cannot dismiss people if you well, I think with my hands who will say that they don't care what you say, it's about how you make them feel. They never forget how you make them feel. So anybody can walk into your space or any presence that you're in. Make them feel good. Make them feel like they're worthy, that they have value. If people feel undervalued, they're going to not give you any value in return. Meaning no outcomes, no all of the positives you want. It doesn't come if you're not in good faith and giving them that good feel. Yes, absolutely. And that and that is so true and necessary to do at all levels. I mean, it's when the lowest person that feels the lowest in the organization, maybe the bus driver, the cafeteria, whoever it is, when they feel seen, heard and inspired, but then they're going to be part of this transformation that you, that you want to see happen. In the educational space. You know, everybody wants to belong just in life. Everyone wants to belong. So the question is, if you're the leader, how do you create centers of belonging for every individual, from student to staff member? So the power dynamics within the community, the people that just wants your ear, how do you give them a sense of belonging in your space that they want to belong? So you have to make that space available. So sometimes people will talk about that. There's a conflict between high trust and accountability. I don't necessarily agree with that, no. How do you maintain high trust and, have high accountability? How did you do that at the campus level? Let's go back to Southbridge. I would say at the campus level, I break it down and let me not mind if you can see that helmet up there. I mean, I was a student athlete at some point. I played college football. And a lot of my takeaways come from sport. And I'm going to tell you why. Because in sports you do you can play or you can. It ain't about what you look like this. We are in and broke barriers. Black people are in sport. Whatever it is, can you whoop or no. Can you ball or no. Can you play or. No. That's why I like it. So there's no politics in that. So when I think of leadership or leading people are pedagogy classroom teaching and learning, I think about either you can master the skills of teaching or you cannot, or either you understand the pedagogy or you do not. It's not about how I feel about you. It's how you perform in your skill is how I skill about you know how I feel about you. But the good news is, if I could share this book and hopefully you don't mind, is a lot of books I like to share. I want to have maybe 1 or 2 more. Bill Walsh had a book called The Score Takes care of itself. And the basic philosophy is if you do what you're supposed to do, if you do what you supposed to do, you do what you're supposed to do, and you do what you supposed to do. When you look up at the scoreboard, it takes care of itself. So it's really asking people to do the best they can with what they have. There is no I in team, but there is an I and win and that I stand for individual. Every individual person on your own time, you going above and beyond and you put that together with the larger team, you will find that win. And what is win in education? Academic achievement? What is win in education? Reducing chronic absenteeism. What is win education? Increasing academic achievement for all young people. That's where the win comes from. But individuals must look at you as that expert and you work in in good faith, and you also rolling up your sleeves and doing what you say you're going to do, and they're going to do what they said they're going to do. You have to make an agreement with yourself. And on this mat, Don Miguel Ruiz have a book called The Four Agreements. And it's very simple. People think this stuff is complicated. Leadership is not complicated. It's just do the basics and build upon it. But the first agreement is the impeccable with your word. Do what you say you're going to do. Show up. When you say you're going to show up, produce what you say you're going to produce. Be impeccable with your word. The second thing is to do not take things personal. You have the title. People are going to be mad at the principal because those are the principles, not you. When you make it personal to you, then there's a big problem. Now you're working off of emotion and feel and don't take things personal. The third thing is do not make any assumptions. I mean, it's okay to infer, but don't assume the data is what it is. It says what it says. You can forecast and predict, but do not assume. And the very last thing is to always try your best. And a part of trying your best is working in good faith and trust in the process. That good will outweigh bad at all times when you're putting good out there. I think that right there, Matt, you know, having those four agreements with yourself, not taking things personal, not making assumptions, being impeccable with your work, trying your best and working hard. I think that's it right there. Absolutely. Yeah. My my friend Rachel. Anyway, kid said don't take yourself too seriously at the, at, South Bridge. Did you face some resistance once you got started? I mean, you're being positive. You're building trust, you're setting high expectations. Were there any revolts that started? You know what I mean? Not necessarily other than the political stuff of, people say, well, we're going to be cautiously optimistic because we know we can vote or there's no elected power. We're just we're going to, you know, watch cautiously. And, you know, so it was that. But it's also understanding the power dynamics because why people did feel some type of way by having their, voting power taken away because of the receivership law. People did like how things felt and things felt good. Kids felt good, families no good. Because the feeling was good. The the turmoil or the pushback was lessened because although we don't like how this how it feels overall not having the power, we do appreciate how it feels seeing our young people being nurtured and invested into a given opportunity. So and a lot of that comes from showing you better than I can tell you, a lot of time as a building leader. Sometimes we can get behind our desk and kind of hide out a little bit and and just grind it out, but you got to be out there. I know, sometimes we try to stay off social media because you don't want to get trolled. No, no no, no, disarm them. Get on social media, tell the story. Tell the narrative, and let your story be the one that gets interpreted over and over again. Because otherwise, if you don't tell your others your story, somebody to tell it for you. Did you have much, staff change at Southbridge while you were there? Just basic transient population. When you talk about a low performing school system, a lot of time, it's the last resort for some of your top teachers. And when opportunities open up elsewhere, a lot of people do jump ship if they're not kind of tapped into the community. So the basic, you know, in and out, we we have vacancies like anybody else. I had substitutes like anybody else. But also when I did get our teachers on board, we did have people that with some riders that were committed to being there for the long haul. And some of those individuals are still there to this day. And I left there in 2018, almost eight years ago. Crazy. Well, I ask about that because, you know, a lot of times people will say, well, you you got to get rid of all the staff or you got to get rid of half the staff to to turn a campus around. And I don't I don't believe that's true. And you're just another example of that. No, I believe in inheriting who I have and seeing in my leadership philosophy works. The man. It was like, as as if I'm a head football coach and I take over a football team, the roster is the roster. You know what I'm saying? If people are injured, the question is, how solid is your game plan or how salary is your scheme or your book, your playbook? So my playbook is full, solid. I don't care who's in the classroom. I think I can get some outcomes. Thinking about Southbridge, is there a specific student success story or a faculty member success story that really touches your heart when you reflect back on it? Yeah, I'll say, man, I had an assistant principal that was there with me from the very beginning, and when I had the opportunity to be promoted to an assistant superintendent, he became the principal. He stayed the principal there for a long time. So they saw some leadership, continuity. Me there. Him serving as the assistant principal. When I was promoted, he was promoted to principal and really did phenomenal things with those young people and led them through the pandemic. I really had a great time working with, I think his name is Pat Danby. He's still a principal and, to this day and doing great work, man. But he was my teammate, and, we worked great together. And when it was time for me to go to my new opportunity, he stepped up and really showed up for that community and graduated a handful of young people, even during the pandemic. Fantastic. And so the school came out of receivership. Well, there's not a was it? The school? Is the school district okay? And the school is still the district, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, the district may still be in receivership. But the school was able to climb up in its rankings as far as student achievement. But the school district maintained receivership. Well, I really appreciate what you've shared today. Doctor Townsend, when you think about, up and coming leaders, what are a couple of principles that you really think they need to be intentional about that build that, build trust. I think. The principals should be very intentional about their brand of leadership, because that's what's going to ripple across the community. You always hear about the legendary principal or the principal. That wasn't so good. The question is, what's going to be your your legacy as a building leader? Whenever I'm looking for principals or when I was a principal, you have to have the X factor. You have to be a rock star, and you have to own that community and be accountable to everything that comes from it, but good and the bad. But they always want to see that leader standing in there strong and firm and fair and taking it to the next level, or continue to take it into the future. I'll say this when I think of like Franklin Delano Roosevelt, former president of the United States, he was around during the time, I think, in the 40s when he came up with the Great New Deal. But he was around so long and became so trusted with his team being Eleanor Roosevelt, the first lady, that they were like the the mom and dad of America like kids or the whole country did not see anybody else in the presidency but him and her as the first lady. So you have to have that type of influence over your community, where even when we're going through a war, they want to hear, hear what the leader has to say about it, whether good, whether they're they always want to come back and get their information from the leader. And that leader has to be competent. But that competence comes from confidence. You have to be confident. Don't worry about you can't be afraid to speak. You can't be afraid to show up into a room and demand the attention of the room. As the leader, you can sink in and just always, you know, timidity is not leadership. Leadership is walking in there, spending ten toes down and taking it to another level. And I think today people expect leadership is really about influence. And influence comes from back to your reference, Dale Carnegie, right. You know, which is our how much we people expect that we care about them. Do they believe that we care about them? And even though they don't necessarily they don't have to agree with what the plan is, but they're going to trust that because we care about them, we're going to be able to walk a path forward together, adjust on the way, trust and relationships are about listening, two way communication. And so that's going to be real important for them. You know, continuing on that journey with you. Well, Doctor Towns, yeah, I really appreciate you sharing. You know, the humility that you lead with the clarity and the consistency. I mean, consistency is so important in in leadership. I think, you know, just your story just continues to remind me that transformation does begin with trust and that every day communication choices that we make demonstrate, you know, trust, accountability, respect and care. So I just, you know, thank you again. How can our listeners follow you? Your work can just continue to connect with you. Absolutely. You can see my name right here on the screen. You can type that into LinkedIn. And please follow me there. That's where I share a lot of my professional insights. Now whether you want to see some behind the scenes, they go to my Instagram, which is Dre Town. And there's d r a e t o w n I'm also Georgetown on Twitter as well, and Andre Towns on Facebook. So all the social media platform you type my name in it, a pop up and I just showcase the work I do as an educational leader. Man, I take it with so much pride and I don't feel like I have a job. I'm doing what the good Lord put me on this planet to do, and that's the support and positively change the trajectory of young people's lives. And that's what I'm doing. Absolutely. Well, I definitely believe you're walking in your purpose and your calling and it's yeah, it's really an honor to get to to watch as you are using your skills in a way and your gifts in a way that is going to make a no, just an incredible, lasting impact on on Hartford and wherever you go to, bring that same set of leadership practices, in the future. So but if today's episode was meaningful to you, as it was for me, please share it with a colleague who would benefit and follow this, Transformational Educators podcast so you never miss an episode. And until next time, keep leading with purpose and transforming schools into places where everyone thrives. If today's conversation gave you fresh insight or inspired you to lead with purpose, please follow the show and tell a friend. It helps us reach more educators who want to make a difference. For more stories, resources, and tools to support your leadership journey, visit Graceland. Edu. Until next time, keep leading with courage and care.