What Happens When School Leaders Stop Leading Alone ft. Dr. Amanda Austin | Transformational Educators Ep. 24

What does it really take to lead a high-performing school with clarity, humility, and purpose? In this episode of Transformational Educators, Dr. Matthew Flippen sits down with Dr. Amanda Austin, Louisiana’s 2025 State Principal of the Year, to explore leadership, school improvement, teacher collaboration, and the real work of building a thriving campus culture. From leading a pre-K through 12 school to using data with transparency and building trust through relationships, Dr. Austin shares practical insight for school leaders who want to grow student outcomes without leading in isolation.

Dr. Amanda Austin reflects on her path into education, her research on effective leadership rubrics, and how those ideas shaped her work as a principal. She shares how she approached a successful but complex campus, gathered qualitative and quantitative data, built teacher ownership around student progress, and created a schoolwide focus on writing, reading, and speaking. This conversation also highlights the power of transparency, vertical alignment, authentic relationships, and representation in leadership.

Whether you are an aspiring administrator, principal, assistant principal, instructional coach, or teacher leader, this episode offers encouragement and practical wisdom for leading transformational change in schools.

Connect with Dr. Amanda Austin:
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Social Media Handle: @dr_amandaaustin

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Transcript

Coming up...

Dr. Amanda Austin 0:00

My biggest thing and my biggest word of advice is just don't lead alone. As educators, we feel like our problems are our problems, but little do we know that these are problems that are affecting others across the United States.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 0:12

That is Dr. Amanda Austin, Louisiana's 2025 State Principal of the Year, School Leader, and Champion for Purposeful, People First Leadership. She believes some of the most meaningful progress in education happens when leaders stop carrying challenges alone and start learning alongside others.

Dr. Amanda Austin 0:30

I had to be transparent and say, I don't know. What are we good at? What are we not good at? What do we need to fix?

Dr. Matthew Flippen 0:36

By the end of this conversation, you'll learn how thoughtful, relationship-centered leadership can help a school grow with purpose. I'm Dr. Matthew Flippin, and this is Transformational Educators.

How did leadership research shape her principal journey?

Dr. Matthew Flippen 0:48

I know you have a background and emphasis in your work on leadership rubrics, and that was part of your part of your dissertation. I'd love to love for you to just touch on that briefly about what is that work, and then and then we can shift into like how you've applied that at your campuses.

Dr. Amanda Austin 1:06

I will say that I was an alternative certification educator. Um I graduated Louisiana State University with a degree in criminology and a minor in African American Studies because I was going to be a lawyer. And then my last year of school, um, I took an education class, which led me to a school, um Polk Elementary School, and a particular teacher, her name was Miss Coates, who let me teach her fifth grade math class. Um, I would be remiss if I didn't say that my mother was a 40, like she retired with 40 years in education. She was my sixth grade math teacher as well as the counselor, because whenever you're in the country, you get you do what you got to do. You do both. And so education had always been there, but it was through that experience at Polk Elementary that I was like, I think I want to be an educator. To obtain a lawyer is reactive. Um, something has happened and you have to obtain service. But to be an educator, I thought could be proactive, to put knowledge and skills into the hands of kids so that way, hopefully, they wouldn't need to get obtained a lawyer later on in life. That's just my thought process. But I was alternative certification. Um, I got my um alternative certification from Louisiana College, which is actually Louisiana Christian University in Pineville, Louisiana. And so that foundation kind of led me into saying, well, if I'm gonna do this and I don't have a formal undergraduate degree in education, then I needed to learn everything I needed to to be successful for myself and for the kids that would be in front of me. And so after that, um, then whenever I finished my master's and I was like, well, you know, again, let's just do it up. Let's just, you know, go all the way to a doctorate. I really wanted to focus in on what effective habits and behaviors led principals to leading successful schools. And at that time, it was the Louisiana Compass rubric. Um, and so I I really studied it. Um, I what habits? Um, there was one school actually in East Baton Rouge Parish that I conducted focus groups with the principal, all of his staff, as well as his admin team, because I wanted to know what was he doing that led a school from being almost an F to an A in about a three to four year period of time. What actions was he taking? And who could tell you that? His staff and his admin team. And so after conducting all those focus groups, I really learned what steps, what moves, and again, what actions that needed to be taken. And I wanted to embody those. Um, at that time, I was still a teacher, but I knew where I wanted to go. And I knew in order for me to one day be a successful leader, that I needed to have a successful leader to kind of model my own actions from. And so that's kind of how I got started in the work of looking at the Louisiana um leader evaluation system. Now, fast forward, ooh, maybe 15 years or so, the rubric has changed. Um, and so now in Louisiana, we use a Louisiana Educator Rubric, which is fashioned after um NIT and some of their rubrics that they had used in their system for effective schools and effective leaders. And so I cross-reference both rubrics, the old and the new, um, because again, I wanted to make sure my own actions lined up with effective practices. And I not only do I use the rubric, my assistant principal uses a rubric, my instructional coaches use a rubric. And so, in order for me to grow and build capacity in others, I really had to understand what I needed to do in order to model for them. Um, because I tell them all the time, one day I'm gonna get old and it's gonna be your turn to step up. And so I want to make sure that they have the tools and skills to be successful. Um, and so this is my second time being a principal at a new school using the new rubric. And so it has really been um a learning experience, but I'm doing it with a team, which makes the learning even more meaningful whenever you have others to collaborate with.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 5:15

Yeah, so absolutely. Collaboration is so is so key. So yeah, I love to hear about your uh the way you took took a case study, dove into researching this particular transformative principle. So I will I will definitely circle back to you uh as we build out this uh transformational education leaders um uh master's program that we're working on, because it's meant to build those competencies uh over a two-year period of time. So let's dive into like a case study example of your most recent uh campus. When you arrived, what uh what was the data showing you um about the campus?

What do you do when you inherit a pre-K through 12 campus?

Dr. Matthew Flippen 5:58

And maybe for our audience, give a little context. It's a pre-K through 12, 12th grade, team.

Dr. Amanda Austin 6:08

Yeah, MSA East, uh the Iberville Math Science and Arts Academy East. We are pre-K through 12. And so whenever I was assigned or reassigned to this school, I literally was like, but it's pre-K-12. Um, my experience is I started off as an elementary school teacher. I taught second through fifth grades, then I moved into leadership and I was at a seventh through twelfth grade campus as an assistant principal. In my first principalship, I was a principal of a six through 12. So I spent a lot of time in secondary at this point, more time than elementary. And so when I got to MSA East, or I literally remember my superintendent saying, You've been reassigned and you're going to MSA East. And I was like, okay. And he was like, it's a pre-K through 12. And I was like, pre-K through 12 in one building? Like you can go from playing, you know, and and foundational skills to launching a kid off into life in the span of one day. But when I got to school, they were an A. They were, I believe, a 96.1 when I got there. And so we we do letter grades. And so to inherit a school that is already high, it was daunting. I was kind of like, okay, what am I supposed to do? Like, maintain. Um, but it's not just to maintain it, it's to grow the campus. And so a 96.1 looks great on a banner, on paper, on social media, but I really had to take a step back and work with the team at that time to figure out, let's break it down. What using um the Louisiana accountability system, which has also changed um recently for the for this upcoming school year, but at that time, using the old accountability system, I needed to see a breakdown. What does that mean for K through eight? What does that mean through nine through 12? And then within that, there are silos within it. There is ACT and work keys, there's the leap test that we use as an indicator of readiness in a particular grade level. And then we also have Dibbles. Are my youngest learners ready to read and move forward? So we really had to take a step back and break down what does a 96.1 mean? Because I'll say my elementary is stronger than my high school. But within that, elementary has work to do. There's some things that we could do to enhance elementary. And then on the high school side, it's a whole different approach. So we really had to take a step back when I got there. And I really needed like, I needed charts. Let's put it on posters, let's put it on the board. I needed to visualize this pre-K through 12th grade campus and next steps on how we can enhance learning and to increase um student opportunities and interest.

Why start with staff feelings before school data?

Dr. Matthew Flippen 8:57

Yeah, absolutely. And so you involved teachers in that. So you generated some charts and you said, hey, let's talk about this together. How did you involve them specifically? Did you have a big workshop? What did that look like?

Dr. Amanda Austin 9:10

Well, I'll say when I first got there, the first thing I had to get to know them and they had to get to know me. They had a school leader there for years prior to me. And so I'm coming in and they're looking at me like, what are you about to change on this campus? And so, one, I had to build rapport. Um, one of the first things I did was kind of gather some qualitative data about feelings, perceptions about their school, about themselves. And so I scheduled these 30-minute visits. Um, I literally got to the school in July, and we had those 30-minute visits in July. And it was just a Google form and it was optional. Where do you see yourself in five years? Where do you see the school? What do you want for yourself? What do you want for the school? Like these are the kind of questions that I asked them. And so I collected that qualitative data about the feelings, feelings, and perceptions of the faculty and staff before I even like could dig into numbers. Like they weren't gonna listen to anything about numbers for me until I learned who they were. And so after that, it literally has been a three-year process because I've been in MSA East for three years. I love just like my team makes fun of me. I love just like a good old word doc with charts. Like I can make a chart out of anything. My team is like, no, we need Excel or we need sheets that can calculate formulas and that could do, you know, and I'm like, I don't know how to do all that. That I I mean, I could do very basic level, um, and you know, it makes me think of like coding. But what we started doing my first year is we started making a an Excel sheet where it was just individual teacher data for this year, for the 25-26 school year, for the students you have in your classroom, let's look at their historical data. And so I could sit here and break all that down and I have it broken down and pass it off. But it's more meaningful when teachers look at their individual kids to see where are they even starting with in order to form a goal. And so after the teachers kind of grappled with data, and this wasn't a one-time sitting, this was a couple of our PLCs or clusters where teachers were digging into data, looking at paper paper spreadsheets and putting it into a Google Sheet. And then, of course, technology in a Google Sheet was its own barrier. But now we're at a place where year three, not only are we still tracking our individual students' historical data, we're forming goals. We have another tab for RTI tracking where kids are going to be. We have aligned it to our SAT student assistance team and MTSS multi-tiered systems of support. Like we have all these connections that we're making that when you say Bobby's struggling, show me the charts and graphs that show me that Bobby's struggling during your RTI period and it graphs it for them. And so I'm now just copying and pasting this graph into our, like I said, our stat, our MTSS process to determine if a 504 plan or if sped accommodations may be needed. And so it has grown in such a way, and our teachers are embracing it. Um, and then, you know, in our heads, we're kind of like, we don't want to add more to it, but we're like, it took three years to get here, but it's such a powerful tool and it's an expectation. The teachers know they're gonna get a spreadsheet. They know that we all have shared access. We're gonna check it to make sure that it's ongoing, it's not just an August, September thing, but we're in February, and so we're heading toward towards state testing. And are we still tracking progress toward a goal between the teacher and the student that they both collectively have set? So um that's how we got them involved, but it took time.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 12:54

It sounds intense and intentional. And I think that is, I think that's a great,

Could one writing strategy unite an entire school?

Dr. Matthew Flippen 12:59

a great lesson. Was there something early that you identified in that that you can share as an example that was either a specific child was missing or it was uh it was a content or focus area that was missing that this this process identified?

Dr. Amanda Austin 13:15

Well, I think the biggest thing was are we working individually or is there a school-wide something initiative that we could work on that everybody can buy into? And so, of course, for me, just having certain experiences, I was like, well, we even as early as kindergarten, first grade, we still have to learn how to write. There's this huge disconnect from second to third in Louisiana, from non-testing to testing. And then we also have where if our students are not proficient at the end of third grade, they could possibly be retained for their literacy for Dibbles. And so we wanted to look at reading, writing, and speaking kind of as a hub to say if our kids are ready and prepared, then they will be successful. And so we just kind of looked at maybe a writing strategy that we as a school can collectively work on, that when I say race or when I say CER, claim evidence and reasoning, it doesn't matter if you're in third grade or if you're in 12th grade, you know what that stands for and you know how to pull a claim, evidence, and reasoning from a passage and a strategy that kids can write on. And so even if I wanted to, you know, kind of go from ELA to social studies, there's still a connection that can be made. And if we're having mixed PLCs between elementary, middle, and high school ELA teachers, they're still speaking the same language. And that was really important to me because again, having a wide variety of teachers, I didn't want to get overwhelmed. I don't want them to feel overwhelmed. So I kind of wanted to just pick a single focus that we could work on collectively. And of course, 12th grade writing should look way different than third grade writing. But how powerful is it for those that third grade teacher and those high school teachers to be in the same room to talk about if this foundation is in place, then kids will be successful, you know, and at the end, which is all of our ultimate goal, is for our kids to be successful beyond high school. So that vertical alignment has been, it has been really powerful and it can be, um, but we got to be strategic.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 15:29

Totally respect the decision to focus on something that went across grades and allowed, um, allowed teachers a common language. I mean, language is so important, and and this idea of being able to focus on a theme uh that you can carry year over year. And it's not just a it's not just a feel-good theme, it's a theme related to a real specific skill set that is a predictor of of success. So outstanding. I mean, I I think that is I think that is great.

Why stay focused instead of chasing the next initiative?

Dr. Matthew Flippen 15:57

Yeah, have you have you maintained that uh over the three years or have you advanced now to another another theme?

Dr. Amanda Austin 16:06

No, we're we're still building. Personally, as a leader, I I always am like, what's next? Let's move on, let's jump. Um, but even from like district leadership, it's kind of like don't feel like you have to move on to something else. But I hate to say perfect because I don't know if there's a such thing as perfection, but but work on and improve what you're doing now so you can continue to see results. The last thing I want us to do is to spend this time in writing and then we move on to something else and then we're out about writing. And so I don't know if we're ready yet, and I don't know what the measurement is. Like, is it a hundred percent proficiency in writing that I'm going, you know, like we don't I don't know what the magic number is or if it is a magic number, but if we're seeing improvement, then I don't, I'm not ready to move on yet. I want to continue to see that upward trajectory.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 16:58

That's great. Well, step up from a higher level standpoint and just talk to us a little bit about the leadership behaviors that you feel are are important about getting alignment among a team like you have there.

Dr. Amanda Austin 17:13

Yeah. Um, well, I think definitely one um is transparency. Um when I got there, again, having elementary knowledge as a teacher, having secondary admin experiences, there were some things I just didn't know. Um, andor like tell me about this school

What leadership behaviors create real team alignment?

Dr. Amanda Austin 17:31

because every school has its own personality. My first principalship, I got the job seven days before school started. My assistant principal didn't come until October. My instructional coach, she came on day six when I called her after I got the job. And I was like, hey, what are you doing next week? And she was like, Going here. And I was like, Well, how about you want to come here in this position? And she was like, Yeah, you know, has it like I'm freaking out too. Like, we're about to start a whole school, you know, just like we new year, new school. And so she joined me, and then my counselor, he got the job, I don't know, maybe two weeks before I got there. He was hired by the previous principal. And so every school has its own personality. But at the end of the day, I have to make sure that the team is on board, that the team understands what the vision is, but that also means as a leader, I have to figure out what the vision is. Um, we can have collaborative conversations and refine it, but it's still my job as a leader to say this is the direction that we're gonna go in. And then I want them to pick holes. I want them to play devil's advocate and say, Well, did you think about this? Can we like I told them I don't want yes men on my admin team? And so that's something that was really um of importance is figuring out the personality of the school. Now, the school I'm at now, I had to do that same process with school. Um, I when I was reassigned, um, I came by myself. I was the only new person into an existing system. And so that was a little bit tougher. It's different when you have a team that's all on board, or you all are like, I think my first principalship, we were all like, we have no idea what we're doing, but we're gonna do it together. The school I was reassigned to, I was like, I'm by myself and I don't know. And so I had to be transparent and say, I don't know. What are we good at, what are we not good at, what do we need to fix? Refine. But I also had to be very um intentional about my observations. Like I could hear the things, but I also need to see those same things or different things because I wanted to make the school my own. Um, and I didn't just go off of what others had said. And so that was um, it was different, but it stretched and grew me because I had to learn the behaviors of the current school. And I could sit here and be like, well, at my last school, that doesn't help anybody. So I had to adjust my own leadership practices to enhance the programming where I am currently at.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 20:08

Yes, yeah, totally. There's lots of scenarios where a new principal walks into a school, right? I mean, there's a whole leadership change, but normally it's not. Normally it is you are the new person in a building that's established. And if you're following a successful leader who has been loved and appreciated and done well, you know, walking in humbly with curiosity and uh taking time to build relationships is uh is a great way to go. Walking in and trying to, you know, like you said, you had it, you were 96 rated. If you'd walked in and said, okay, here's all my great ideas, so now we're gonna get to 99, um, you know, then there may have been some resistance to that because you weren't known. And um they may have known of your reputation, but they didn't know you and and you didn't know them. I've hear I'm hearing consistently from uh from leaders right now that this thing we say about to about children, that children don't care what you know till they know you care, um, is the same for adults too. I think that's what you were uh communicating um when you walked in as well. I need to get to know you as a staff and um and show you that I do care about you as people and that we're gonna go on a journey together to uh to continue the success and see how we can even improve it. I think you did share that you've continued to be A-rated, and so congratulations on that.

Dr. Amanda Austin 21:36

Thank you for that. Um that again is a daunting task. Um, whenever you have kids who are ready, you know, at a place of, you know, ready to learn, ready to move. Um, it's hard to grow kids who are high, but we but in we it's our task. We still have to. So we have to figure out what do we need to do and what steps we need to take. And so You know, even for teachers, that's something that they're like, well, I mean, they already, and I'm like, yes, but we have to push them. Just like I, if I have a highly effect or an effective teacher, I want to move them to be highly effective. I don't want them to just remain effective, which is great, but I want to grow and I want to stretch them. And so it's important that I model the behaviors with adults, with teachers, so teachers can then model that with the students in the classroom.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 22:27

Absolutely. Is there a specific story or is there a specific child, teacher or a child that stands out that really connects to like your why that you're doing this work that you've experienced the last couple of years?

How did representation deepen her why as a principal?

Dr. Amanda Austin 22:40

In administration, I never had really had a leader that looked like me. I never had a black female. And so when I became a principal the first time, um, I had students who were like, Oh, like you're our principal. And I was like, Yeah. And they were like, we never had a black principal. And this is like 2019. And so I'm like, really? And they're like, Yeah. And so if I wore my hair curly, if I wore my hair in a puff, like they would notice those things. And they started to wear their hair and they started to imitate me. Or if we had a twin day at school on a dress-up day, they wanted to look like they were like, can we be your twin? And then, you know, it might look like quadruplets, but they saw something that they had never seen before. And for me, I just was like, that's that's my why. Um, I want to educate all children, regardless of race, color, creed, nationality. But for a child who's like, I've never seen anybody do what you're doing that looks like me with your curly hair, or whenever you go up to speak, or whenever you are on TV, or whenever, whatever you're doing, for them to be like, that's my principle and their sense of pride, that's something that really touched my heart. Because I just, I never thought of myself that way. I just am like, I'm doing this to make a better way for you guys for the future. But for them to give back to me by those kind words and gestures, that that that keeps me motivated.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 24:08

Yes, that's incredible. Amanda, thanks for sharing that. You know, my uh my youngest sons uh were born in Ethiopia. So they are they are uh they're twins and uh they're 18 now and just outstanding young men. And uh and it's definitely something I'm sensitive to, you know, that I want I want them to have black male role models that are in their lives that they can aspire to. And I know that you are in an elite group of doctorates in education, serving in the principal role as a as a black female. And so there is a lot of pride that you should have in that in that accomplishment and being recognized, you know, at such a high, high level. So I definitely pray that your influence and voice just get it continues to get uh a broader and broader audience. Well, it's so many aspects of what you're doing that are that are important. I mean, obviously, you're an incredibly gifted leader and uh and a and a role model to your your your students and your community. So just so exciting.

Dr. Amanda Austin 25:11

I appreciate it. No, um I I think at some point I I really kind of looked at the intersectionality of being a black or African American and a woman in leadership. And I mean, there's a lot, there's layers. Um, at one point in time, it was age as well. Um, and I don't think we talk about ageism. Um, you know, I was a young quote unquote, I'm not anymore. Um, I was a young school leader. And so at 29 years old, to talk to the veteran who's been in education for 40 years, and she's like, why would I listen to you? And so just, you know, there's a lot of different challenges that could be um in leadership. And so again, the thing that I own the only thing or the first thing I knew how to do was just to build a relationship. She wasn't gonna listen to me if I didn't know anything about her, if I didn't know her why, if I didn't know that she liked to garden on the weekends, or if she, you know, like, you know, I'm gonna bring you some tomatoes. Okay, you know, like whatever it took for her to realize I was invested in her as a person, and even at 40 years, I wanted her to grow, then she would have been resistant to anything I had to say. And so building those meaningful, authentic relationships, really in any aspect or any challenge that I may face, that that's my first go-to.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 26:33

Absolutely. So true. You know, and right now there are there are a large, large number of young principals, because there's been a lot of turnover in principalships, a lot of young principals entering in. And I think that that guidance and advice you just gave about start with relationships. Everything starts with with relationships and uh and build build from there. So, so critical,

Where to connect with Dr. Austin

Dr. Matthew Flippen 26:56

so critical. Well, where can our listeners learn more about your work and connect connect with you?

Dr. Amanda Austin 27:02

Well, definitely um Twitter um or Instagram or um Facebook, LinkedIn, um, all the social media channels, um, on uh Instagram and Twitter, um, the at symbol dr underscore Amanda Austin. Um, I definitely try to keep up on social media because I'm I that's part of the world now and leadership is like getting your voice out there and following other educators. I've made so many meaningful relationships with educators from social media. And so when I get to attend national conferences such as ASED or ISD or the National Association of Secondary School Principals, and I get to like see people who I follow, like I feel like, you know, like a fangirl, like, oh my gosh, I can't believe it's you. But we as educators have so many great things. Um, LinkedIn, um, Dr. Amanda Austin, um that I mean, I would love to connect with others because education is not easy and leadership is an added layer that it can be difficult. But my biggest thing and my biggest um word of advice is just don't lead alone. Don't don't do this by yourself. Um, as educators, we feel like our problems are our problems, but we little do we know that these are problems that are affecting others across the United States, if not nationally, but across the United States. And if we can work together to kind of have a think tank and brainstorm, then that saves a little bit more time. That saves you some headache, that saves you maybe some heartbreak because there's other educators who've been through it, who have advice to share. Um, but we can't do it on our own. That's I would love to connect with others.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 28:49

That's fantastic. Amanda, thank you for offering that. Well, to our listeners, if you found today's episode valuable, please share it with a colleague who or educator who would benefit. And if you haven't already, please follow Transformational Educators so you never miss an episode. And until next time, keep leading with purpose and transforming schools into places where everyone thrives. If today's conversation gave you fresh insight or inspired you to lead with purpose, please follow the show and tell a friend. It helps us reach more educators who want to make a difference. For more stories, resources, and tools to support your leadership journey, visit Graceland.edu. Until next time, keep leading with courage and care.