From Bottom 3 to Middle of the Pack: A Principal's Playbook | Kevin Dougherty | Transformational Educators Ep. 27

What does it take to transform a struggling school culture when hope feels low, discipline challenges are high, and the community feels disconnected from the building?

In this episode of Transformational Educators, host Dr. Matthew Flippen sits down with lifelong educator Kevin Dougherty, who brings more than 40 years of experience as a classroom teacher, assistant principal, and principal. Kevin shares the story of walking into his first principalship at E.A. Jones Elementary, a Title I campus near the bottom of the district, and choosing a different path than the one many expected.

Instead of leading with a strong arm, Kevin focused on relationships, vulnerability, professional learning, a brighter physical environment, teacher-built behavioral norms, and a parent center placed in the heart of the school. His story is a powerful reminder that school transformation begins with trust, consistency, community, and courageous servant leadership.

You’ll hear how Kevin helped create a more hopeful campus culture, why proactive discipline can outperform punishment, how teachers helped shape behavior expectations, and how a reading recovery program reached results beyond what its creator thought possible.

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Transcript

Coming up...

Kevin Dougherty 0:00

I didn't feel a lot of it. There were great teachers there. That felt hopeful. But what I heard about mostly were all the challenges and all the negatives. And I think there was an expectation in campus leadership that you have some magic wand to wave to make it all go away and fix it. And a lot of that actually is around discipline. But that's not what they got from me. Not that they didn't get support, but I really approached it from a different angle.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 0:26

That is Kevin Dougherty, a lifelong educator with over 40 years in education, who has served as a classroom teacher, assistant principal, and principal of Title I campuses in the Houston and Dallas areas. Kevin explains that when he walked into his first principalship at a school ranked near the bottom of the district, everyone expected discipline and a strong arm, but he brought something entirely different: hope, vulnerability, and a vision that put relationships and community at the center of everything.

Kevin Dougherty 0:58

One of the things that I did leading up to kind of kicking things off and setting the right tone was it's gonna sound crazy, but I sang to my staff. Had the background music on the tape or whatever, held the mic, and I sang to them. And it's not because I think I have the best voice, as you can hear from my frogginess today. It's not that at all. It is that I was being vulnerable before them.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 1:22

By the end of this conversation, you will learn how physical environment and vulnerability can transform school culture from the first day. Why a proactive behavioral program built by teachers outperforms punitive discipline and how a reading recovery program achieved results its own creator never thought possible. I'm Dr. Matthew Flippin, and this is Transformational Educators.

What Kevin Walked Into as a First-Time Principal

Dr. Matthew Flippen 1:48

I'd love to for us to dive right into your time at uh E.A. Jones uh elementary. Tell us a little bit about that school and and was this your first principalship when you walked into the air? Walk us through the history.

Kevin Dougherty 2:04

It was my first principalship, and I was 34 years old. So, of course, I thought I was like 50. I was ready to go and so forth and to take on this role by storm. Um, I'm sure many of the teachers were looking at me thinking, I have children uh older than him. And uh this school, he's gonna be eaten alive, chewed up, and spit out. Um there were a lot of challenges. Of course, it was one of the lower performing schools in the district. I think at the time, Fort Bend had 30 some elementary schools, and we were in the bottom three in terms of performance. So, you know, it was a lot of work to be done, a lot of expectations, but I was up for the challenge because my whole focus in being a principal was that we're here to serve kids. And, you know, whatever those challenges are that people want to place before us or before me, we can, we can, you know, work through, around, over, whatever we need to do. So um the school was uh the only school actually in the district that was not a neighborhood school, meaning that all of our students were bust in from other parts of the area. So in some instances, we got kids that the other schools were like, hey, we're full, we we can't take any more. So some kids would bus almost an hour each way to and from schools. So you know how fun the bus rides were for kids and how they were when they came to school after sitting on a bus for almost an hour. So um it it was a lot, but the other piece was the fact that the school was uh 65% African American, 35% Hispanic. Uh, and in my few years there, I maybe had one or two Caucasian kids um in my school. So, you know, I was one of the minorities in the school uh as the principal. And for some reason, and understandably so, maybe not even the first choice uh for the role. And I understood it. I didn't take it personally at all. But um, but what I knew is what my role was, what my task was, and that was to uh elevate student performance and to create an environment where learning was fun and enjoyable and hopeful. It was a great school, but it was an older school, so it it needed some work facility-wise, inside and out. Sure. Now, uh

How Language Barriers Became a Bridge to Parents

Kevin Dougherty 4:26

you had the advantage of you actually are very fluent in Spanish, and I think that was well, I wouldn't say very fluent, you're giving me more credit, but my compared to me, my French helped me with the Spanish because my grandmother's an immigrant from Canada and came speaking only French, as did her siblings and so forth. So I grew up around hearing French, and therefore when I was I learning Spanish, and I learned it at EA Jones, that's where I learned to read and speak to a certain level Spanish. Um, one of my teachers actually used to take my addresses when I would speak before all the parents and community, and she would translate it into Spanish. And at the time it was cassette, you know, that dates me. But I would listen in my car and practice over and over. And the best part was when I would be addressing the group in Spanish and English, but when I was doing it in Spanish, a little four-year-old would correct my pronunciation out loud, and the whole audience would just crack up and laugh. And so the fact that I'm not fluent actually made a tighter bond between me and the parents because I'm up here as the principal who's highly regarded for my position, and I'm struggling some with my Spanish just as they were with their English. So it actually uh bonded us even more. So that's a great example.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 5:48

So uh, so the school is uh three from the bottom uh when you when you come in. The building is older, old, not in good, not in good condition. And it's an elementary school. So from a culture standpoint, um was there much hopefulness there when you first arrived?

Kevin Dougherty 6:10

I didn't feel a lot of it. There were great teachers there. So there were really there were some wonderful teachers there. And so, you know, that felt hopeful. But what I heard about mostly were all the challenges and all the negatives. I heard a lot of that. And I think there was an expectation in uh campus leadership that you have some magic wand to wave to make it all go away and fix it. And a lot of that actually is around discipline. So the sense is when kids are misbehaving in the classroom, if you'll just come in and with a strong arm, get these kids in order and you know, we can teach and we can focus on what we need to do in the classroom, then everybody's good. But that's not what they got from me. Not that they didn't get support, but I I really approached it from a different angle. And I can share more of that with you as we continue to

Why Chairs, Paint, and Murals Matter in School Culture

Kevin Dougherty 7:05

visit.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 7:05

Well, and I and so, like, I mean, just physical, just the physical nature of a building, a space, you know, is important to set expectations, right? Because I think when I talk about hopefulness, I'm also thinking about just expectations, you know, that we're not we're not valued because our facility isn't strong. So, what what did you do just to address that element?

Kevin Dougherty 7:25

Yes, I love that. Uh almost immediately we did some things. Now, the district had already had some things planned. We were going to be getting new carpet. Uh, so that was already coming, and maybe some new flooring. Of course, some of the old flooring was had asbestos in it, so we had to do all of uh that, you know, have everything with plastic, you know, and I'm in the building, so no telling what I'm breathing in. But anyway, I just really um I really appreciated those efforts and it allowed me to build a rapport with the operations department of the school district. And they took a liking to the vision. I I learned early on as a principal and before as an assistant principal that people are drawn to a compelling vision. They like a compelling vision and they want to be part of it. And so I was able to get the support of them like, hey, can we get a little extra paint here and paint those front doors? There, they look, it looks like a prison. Could we, you know, brighten it up? We've got oil blue and yellow as our school colors. Let's just brighten this place up. Inside, there was almost no natural light. On the outskirts, there were, you know, wings with windows, but all the inside, which was most of the building, was artificial lighting and it was dark and dingy. So the trim around the doors and all of the trim was painted a dark, dark brown. So I said, let's paint that white. Let's just kind of brighten it up so the light reflects off of it and it brightens it up. And two other things were um, well, three things. One, the chairs didn't match. Harvest gold, the whatever the orange color was, and avocado green. That's with the colors of the chairs. And our our colors were blue and gold. And so they didn't match. The chairs were broken. I thought, nope. So we got all new chairs and they were all blue. So it was consistent, they all worked, they weren't wobbly or anything like that. We had um a carpet brought for the front as you walked in. That was the world with kids multicultural holding hands around the world. So it was bright and hopeful. And then the biggest piece was our art teacher, who was from Eastern Europe, was a renowned artist, uh, in addition to being an art teacher. And I had her paint a mural in the front. There was an arch as you came in the front doors. And the models for the mural were our kids, so that it reflected the faces of our kids and the diversity of our student population. And they're all reaching for the stars. And it said, um, shoot for the moon. And if you don't reach the moon, at least you'll be amongst the stars. And I had people actually say to me when they walked in, is this a new school?

Dr. Matthew Flippen 10:07

I thought, well, yes, it is. Yes. I mean, I just think about that. I mean, this is just a very simple practical thing. Yeah. The chairs match, right? They and they work, right? Simple things to communicate. I value you as a person. And so I'm going to provide value in the in the aesthetics of the building. And this is an elementary school. It needs to be fun, a warm place where learning is part of uh just in an enjoyable experience of building relationships with teachers and with and with each other. So yeah, that's such a that's such a beautiful thing. Now, um, now obviously um putting paint on the walls doesn't address all the culture issues.

The Three Priorities That Guided the Turnaround

Dr. Matthew Flippen 10:53

What were some of the things in terms of of culture that you did to help the help the teaching faculty raise expectations?

Kevin Dougherty 11:02

I'm a huge believer in professional learning, professional learning that is sound, research-based, uh, data driven. And so we worked really hard as a collective team on our continuous improvement plan. And we had all stakeholders involved in that, especially, and it was required by the state, at least at the time, that all the stakeholders had to be involved in the professional learning plan. I personally saw in my years leading up to being a principal three areas of critical importance in the school. One is critical thinking, developing thinkers in our school. So that was reflected in our plan. Everyone agreed with that. Literacy was number two. So building literate students. Um, and so we focused heavily on literacy across all content areas. And then the third one was community, because we wanted to build that sense of community, especially since we weren't a neighborhood school. We were set off apart from where all the students live. So we had to work especially hard at building community.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 12:12

Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm I'm thinking about having those objectives, right? And yet I'm picturing you as a green principal,

Why Kevin Sang to His Staff on Day One

Dr. Matthew Flippen 12:22

right? So, what did you do to earn the trust and build rapport that first 90 days that you were there, so that you could start to do the work of improvement as a team?

Kevin Dougherty 12:33

One of the things that I did um uh leading up to kind of kicking things off and setting the right tone was it's gonna sound crazy, but I sang to my staff, had the background music on the tape or whatever, held the mic, and I sang to them. And it's not because I think I have the the best voice, as you can hear from my frogginess today. It's not, it's not that at all. It is that I was being vulnerable before them. Now, the words of the song, it was corner of the sky, were all about hope and joy. And um, it's a song that I had known for for many years, and I wanted to share it with them. And some of them probably sat there thinking, oh Lord, this guy's crazy. He's singing, and this is gonna turn things around. But what I wanted people to see is that one, we should share our gifts, and you all have gifts, and I want you to share them. And I also want to remove layers of fear and and be vulnerable with one another. We're a family. We're we're together for multiple hours a day for many days throughout the year. So let's build that sense of family and strip away some of those other layers. So that's how I started with a song.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 13:50

That's what a great, what a great picture, right? I I can just imagine, you know, there's new paint, there's new chairs, there's uh there's an investment of time and energy to say, hey, I value you. There's a vulnerability of I'm trying to speak Spanish as fast as I can, and I'm willing to do it, even though it's not perfect. And just to top it off, let's sing. And uh yeah, and there's so many things about about music actually as a tool to connect uh that uh are so so powerful. So so I love that. I really, I really do. So you so you infused, I'm gonna use the term hopefulness, right? You infused hopefulness and expectations. You're you're implementing programs because you do expect that children are gonna learn better. Obviously, you don't want to be third from the bottom, uh, and and uh the staff doesn't want that for children

How Schools Keep From Slipping Back

Dr. Matthew Flippen 14:45

either. Um, as you started to progress, what were some of the things you noticed were the culture trying to slip back to lower expectations?

Kevin Dougherty 14:54

Well, I think one of the challenges with professional learning is that it be ongoing and continuous, that uh I think many people have worked and lived in a paradigm where professional learning, professional development is treated as a one and done event. And there's been a lot of talk about continuous improvement, but look at even today. I mean, as I work with schools and districts, how limited the time is in many schools and districts to conduct professional learning. So if it's something that we truly value, look, even Title II is on the chopping block again. So we may not have the funds to fully support the professional learning and so forth. So um, I just know how important it is and that just staying consistent. It's like, you know, going to the gym or eating healthy or whatever. It's it's it's that 1% that James Clear talks about. We're not gonna like go from zero to a hundred in one year and oh, now we're all fixed. Now we can just sort of go forward. Now it's a lifestyle. So the way to keep it from slipping back is to build habits. Totally.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 16:04

Yeah, yeah. That consistency, uh, clarity of expectations and consistency and reinforcing and accountability. Now, because it is natural for us when we're not held accountable, right? Uh, to slip back into old old habits for sure. Well, I was thinking about how you know just important moving culture was.

The Parent Center That Changed Community Trust

Dr. Matthew Flippen 16:23

I know um you we've talked about a unique thing you did on the community side, because that was one of your three pillars. Yes. Tell tell me about how how did you get this very uh spread out community uh to engage and be part of what what you were trying to do there.

Kevin Dougherty 16:40

I appreciate that question. And it's really one of the accomplishments of which I'm most proud and has um really stuck with me through the years. And I can't take all the credit for it. It was the state and federal programs department that was so supportive of me as a new principal. But they came to me and they said, um, Kevin, we got a grant uh for opening a few parent centers. So only like three schools, I think, were going to get the parent centers. And I was one of the first people they came to. And I was just jumping at the chance. I said, absolutely, we so need this. Because I would watch as my parents, especially my non-native English speaking parents, would come into school, often with some young kids in tow, and feeling very uncomfortable, even though my front office spoke Spanish, it still was just this awkward feeling like, do we fit in? And are my little kids behaving and the language barrier, all those things. So I'm like, yes, we will open a parent center. So we took that money and we built it in the heart of the school. And it was a fellow principal that said, Kevin, don't put this in a portable, don't put it in an old broom closet. Find a place in the heart of your building because that will demonstrate how much you value this. So we did. We found a space right in the heart of the building. And uh we had sofas and chairs, we bought furniture, we had television with you know, educational videos for kids. We had a little like mini kitchen station where they could heat things up with microwave and all of that. And they would come in and uh every day at different times and so forth. And they they would sign in when they came in and just go to the parent center because that was their home. There was no hesitancy as they came into the school. But the best part, Matthew, was on Thursdays when we did a potluck lunch, kind of like a bento bowl or bento meal in Hawaii. It's a little bit of everything. So everybody brought their things in and they shared them with me, the principal. There was no agenda. I had no great expectations for the discussion. We just um sat together and broke bread and fellowshipped with one another. And it was so powerful.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 18:55

Wow. So, you know, I I don't know how often these parent centers are used today uh as a way to bring you know community into the school.

Why Leaders Need Courage to Let Parents In

Dr. Matthew Flippen 19:07

Um, so what's the big picture of the skills? What's the need that that's serving uh if you if you were gonna guide a principal today on you know why would you do this and how would you you know go about doing it?

Kevin Dougherty 19:23

Well, I think first of all, you you have to get past um those trials and challenges we have with being vulnerable. When you have parents in there, if you've got a runner in your school, you know, run out of the classroom and running down the hall, they're gonna see it. If if uh somebody's having a little meltdown, they're gonna hear it. So um, but but what I discovered was they had so much more empathy and understanding and a sense of ownership because they were there and they were part of it. They weren't coming in to judge, they weren't coming in to find fault with the principal or the teachers. They were truly there to be part of the community and part of the the team of educating kids. And so I just can't speak highly enough of it. And then the other piece of that, uh, to your point of like what were the goals and so forth of it. Really, the goals were very simple. That we provide a space, a safe space, a comfortable space. We create a sense of comfortability that I'm very much a part of that. I go there just I would go have my team meetings with my team leaders or you know, student council or whatever it is. But more than anything, relationships trump everything in education. Relationships before relevance, relevance before rigor. So start with relationships. So my desired outcome, my goal was that we build trust, that we build a relationship.

What Happened With Discipline Over Time

Dr. Matthew Flippen 20:53

So you mentioned when we were first visiting about the district hoped you would come in and address the discipline issues so we can get to learn. What was the trend? I'm curious. Listening to all that you've done, what happened with discipline issues over time?

Kevin Dougherty 21:08

Well, one thing was um, you know, there there are things over which you don't have control when you're the principal, right? And one of those things over which I didn't have control was who my assistant principal was. And when I first took over as principal, uh, they had moved the principal out to another campus in a different role and moved me in to partner with the previous assistant principal who was friends with the previous principal. So I didn't know what she'd think of me because her friend was moved and I come in. We hit it off immediately. Um, she was a little bit older than me at the time, African American woman. Her daughter was actually in school where I was assistant principal. So we kind of got to know each other prior to me coming in. So she knew about me, Mr. D, before me coming to. The school. And I loved working with Miss Jones. We just made a great pairing. And she was she was firm and um and yet she wasn't uh mean spirited. And so I just love the balance that we brought. I'm bringing great vision and all of this. And she's the more practical boots on the ground. And we had a mutual respect and admiration. Next uh assistant was brought in. I didn't ask for the change. That assistant would just bring kids into his office and sit in there with um packets of worksheets. Well, you know, was popular with many of the teachers because the problems were removed from their classroom. My concern about it was are our students learning? The ones that are, you know, working on a worksheet package in the assistant principal's office when there's like no room to walk in the office because it's just filled with kids. I didn't think that was the answer

How Stop and Think Changed Student Behavior

Kevin Dougherty 22:59

either. So, real quickly, I was interviewing a teacher my first year there who had implemented a program called Stop and Think. And it was developed by a psychologist. And what we did is uh my second year there, we brainstormed what are the top nine, 10 misbehaviors that you deal with in the classroom and in the school. So they all pick them. We prioritize them. All right, these are the top nine behaviors, like how to listen when someone else is talking, whatever it may be. And then we identified the steps that you must follow. What are those behavioral norms? So the norm may be look at the person, nod your head in acknowledgement, smile, don't interrupt, wait till they're finished speaking and then speak. So we did that and we had stop and think signs posted all over the school. So they're in the classrooms or the hallway or in the bathroom, they're in the cafeteria. So it was a visual reminder every day throughout the day to stop and think before you behave or act. So that was a huge cultural shift for the school. I took it with me to my next school in Irving because I believe so heavily in it. But it was, it was simple. But the other part was the teachers helped build it. So if they were concerned about getting the support of administration, you all identified these behaviors, you identified what these behaviors, the norms should look like. And we all work together to, you know, to support that and build those behavioral habits. That's awesome. So, what was

Why Punishment Alone Does Not Build Better Habits

Kevin Dougherty 24:34

the outcome of that? Well, the the outcome, of course, was improved behavior. So um it gave it it gave it structure because so often when we look at discipline, uh, the tendency is to think about it from a punitive standpoint, like we're just gonna punish the um negative behaviors out of students. I was more of the uh proactive approach of let's teach the behaviors. Let's not assume they know the behaviors, right? We're making a lot of assumptions there. And and and also that these are collective norms that we all share. Maybe this teacher has these norms, this teacher has these norms, and all this. So let's have some collective behavioral norms, not only for students, but for ourselves as the adults uh in the building.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 25:20

That's a beautiful example. I mean, to think that every teacher's on the same page about behavioral expectations, but and but also has taken on the role of instructing in appropriate behavior. And I know we're talking about years ago when you were a campus principal, but even today, the importance of teaching socialization uh is is ground level work that has to happen in every every school at every at every level. Um fact, I think it's one of the most important thing um uh benefits that's pub that schools provide is that it it should be a place where we learn how to operate you know well together as as citizens. Yeah, so

The Reading Recovery Results That Surprised Its Creator

Dr. Matthew Flippen 26:05

that's really good. So tell me about how the school progressed. So I know you came in and it was third from the bottom. What happened to performance over time as culture improved, exp expectations improved, the physical environment improved. You know, what did that look like?

Kevin Dougherty 26:19

Edged up to the middle of the pack. Um, we weren't at the top of the pack, but we did edge up to the middle. Probably one of the things of which I'm most proud was our reading recovery program, an intensive one-on-one intervention for your most struggling first-grade readers. Uh, and we were um celebrating successes of 70 plus percent discontinuation rates, which even Maury Clay herself, who created it, I got to meet her one time and I told her about the success. And she said, Kevin, never in my wildest imagination or dreams did I think it would be that. I thought if we could get to 30%, we'd be doing well. But we were at 70 plus percent. But it was really about commitment. And I did want to mention too that, you know, the principal cannot single-handedly change the culture or, you know, keep it moving in a certain direction. When I was in college, I rode on the crew team. I rode on an eight-man boat and a four-man boat. And the the beauty of that, and you see it on posters for teamwork all the time, and it makes sense because the whole goal when you're in that boat is for each rower to pull their own weight, not more, not less. Everyone's pulling their own weight, and they're all rowing in the same direction. And when that happens, even though you're exerting tremendous energy and it's physically exhausting, that boat lifts up several inches off the water and it feels like it's flying and floating in the air. It's the most amazing feeling. And that's that's what you strive for, I think, in an organization or in a school is are we all rowing in the same direction? And are we each of us pulling our own weight? Are we equipped and empowered to be able to uh pull our own weight to make this boat move forward uh and and you know, faster than

The Teacher Story Kevin Never Forgot

Kevin Dougherty 28:15

ever ways?

Dr. Matthew Flippen 28:15

When you think back on this time, is there a is there a story about a student, a parent, or a teacher that really touches your heart when you reflect on your on the impact that you had there?

Kevin Dougherty 28:27

Yes, there is one person that just stands out above the crowd, and it was a teacher, uh, many students. Um I'll share that story with you later, but I'm gonna focus on this teacher, Miss Webb. I had a fifth grade classroom where the teacher that I hired really was struggling, and she wanted to blame everybody but you know herself. She didn't want to take any responsibility. It was all the kids, it was the principal, it was whatever, but it wasn't her. And so uh one day I went to her classroom and the kids were uh you know talking and it was rather disorderly, and she's sitting on a table with her feet up on a chair and just watching it all happen. And I said, Uh, ma'am, is there something going on here? And she said, I gave them the directions one time and I told them I'm only giving them once. And if they don't listen, I'm not giving them again. So they can just, you know, have at it. I said, Well, do you mind if I give the directions once? I said, Boys and girls, I'm gonna give you the directions. I understand that the teacher just provided them and you weren't paying attention. So I expect you to pay attention, and I I expect you to pay attention now. And I gave the directions for the activity, and the students all immediately, of course, went to work. But again, she wanted to blame the kids. So it at some point, I don't know if it was that day or a day around that, she just said, I'm out of here, I'm leaving. And I think she thought I wasn't supporting her because I wasn't giving in to the blaming everybody else, including me. And so she left, middle of the day, middle of the year, and never came back. And at first the kids applauded, like, and I thought, nope, we are not gonna have oh, because as she was walking out the door, she said, This is your fault to the children. Oh no, to the children, to the children. So I said, Boys and girls, I I want you to uh refocus here. I knew she was serious that she was leaving and probably not coming back, and so I said, I will have a substitute in here tomorrow, but for right now, I'm gonna stay here with you and we're gonna, you know, finish

How Miss Webb Became a Superstar Teacher

Kevin Dougherty 30:40

this day. And that's when I found Miss Webb. Miss Webb lived in a nearby community. Uh, she had raised several boys of her own, and she went through all the you know challenges of child raising. So there wasn't anything that the kids could do that she hadn't seen before. She started playing classical music, she developed uh just a beautiful culture with a great deal of firmness. She was tough, she was loving, and she was very well planned and focused. So the next year I moved her to fourth grade and she became a superstar teacher. And I just love having her there. And the other reason I loved having her there is she was very open with me about different things that I said, different choices that I made. Um, you know, and again, I am a Caucasian principal of a, you know, fully African-American and Hispanic school. She was an African-American woman who would openly like say, Hey, Mr. D, you know, in this situation, let me kind of give you some background and so forth. And it was, again, very loving, but very clear. And I thought, oh, I just love that she feels so comfortable with me. Even when I got a bad haircut one day, she told me, Oh, Mr. D, don't ever get your hair cut like that again. You know, yeah, you're a nice guy, but you need to keep your hair a little longer. It does not look good. It's not a good look on you. So she she went on to be a teacher at the middle school and advanced, got an advanced degree. I kept up with her for several years after and then lost touch. But Miss Webb, I don't know, there's something really special about her and um

Why Every Leader Needs a Truth Teller

Kevin Dougherty 32:24

how much she taught me.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 32:25

Yes, I love that. You know, we all need a truth teller in our lives. And I I would challenge anybody listening to this to think who is who who is close enough to you that's that you are responsible for leading who would tell you you got a bad haircut. You know, but seriously, that would say, hey, the way you presented that to that family may have come across a little bit offensive because of these culture issues that you just may not be aware of. And that is definitely something that I I'm sensitive to. You know, I have two African American sons in the in the environments that they operate in. I'm always trying to learn how do I present in a way that is uh you know encouraging and honoring uh to um to different cultures. So yeah, I love that. Thanks for sharing that example, Kevin. Kevin, this has been so this has been so great. I know we could go on and just talk about uh experiences for forever, but want to be sensitive to

How to Connect With Kevin Dougherty

Dr. Matthew Flippen 33:24

your time. Tell us how our listeners can follow you, connect with you, and just continue to learn from your leadership.

Kevin Dougherty 33:32

Absolutely. Well, I do host a podcast as well. It's called Just Thinking with Kevin Doherty. And there are several Just Thinking podcasts. That's why I specify that it's with Kevin Doherty, and it is on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Um, I have produced about 60 episodes uh with the great support and help of Market Scale in downtown Dallas. And then uh in addition to that, I have a Facebook group. So if you're on Facebook, just look me up, Kevin Doherty, you'll find me there. And there's a group there called Just Thinking. And there are just over 800 um current and former educational leaders, thoughtful leaders that are part of that group. And mainly it's a it's about informing the latest trends like AI and other, you know, current trends. But then the other is just some quotes of inspiration and to bring some joy and some hope. So uh so check it out. Just thinking Facebook group and the Just Thinking with Kevin Doherty podcast. So love to connect with your connect on LinkedIn as well.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 34:35

I know you've got LinkedIn. Oh yeah, the business followers there. So we'll be sure to include the links to those uh, you know, as well in the in the show notes. So, you know, Kevin, you can't spend any time with you and not see clearly your authentic care uh for people and the how intentional you are about about valuing people. So I just uh appreciate you sharing this story uh today. So thanks again for being part of this. It was a pleasure. Thank you, Matthew. Yeah, great to see you. Yeah. If you found today's episode valuable, please share it with a colleague uh who would benefit from it and follow Transformational Educators so you never miss an episode. And until next time, keep leading with purpose and transforming schools into places where everyone thrives. If today's conversation gave you fresh insight or inspired you to lead with purpose, please follow the show and tell a friend. It helps us reach more educators who want to make a difference. For more stories, resources, and tools to support your leadership journey, visit Graceland.edu. Until next time, keep leading with courage and care. If you want to keep learning about transformational strategies in education, click the next video.