Why Teachers Are Quitting and What One HR Director Did About It | Transformational Educators Ep. 29

What really helps schools keep great educators when the applicant pool is shrinking and teacher stress is rising?

In this episode of Transformational Educators, host Matthew Flippen talks with Susanne Goodin, Assistant Superintendent for Human Resources at Elmore County Board of Education in Alabama. With 30 years in education, Susanne brings a deeply practical perspective on teacher retention, school leadership, staff support and the changing realities facing today’s classrooms.

Susanne shares what she learned as a young principal, why being approachable matters more than leaders may realize, and how honest feedback helped her shift from doing the job well to caring for the people well. She also discusses the sharp decline in teacher applicants, the creation of Elmore County’s teacher retention task force, and the small but meaningful changes that helped educators feel heard and supported.

The conversation also explores why student behavior is driving many educators out of the profession, how retired mentor teachers are helping stabilize classrooms, and why districts must be intentional about growing leaders from within. For school leaders, aspiring administrators and educators who care about building healthy school cultures, this episode offers honest insight, encouragement and practical leadership wisdom.

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Transcript

Coming up...

Susanne Goodin 0:00

This year I had three kindergarten teachers quit the first week of school. And when you ask them why it's behavior.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 0:06

That's Susan Gooden, Assistant Superintendent for Human Resources at Elmore County Board of Education in Alabama, a 30-year educator who built the retention systems her district depends on to stay staffed. But she is seen on the ground will challenge what you think you know about why teachers are leaving.

Susanne Goodin 0:22

When I got the job at Quesada Elementary School in 2004, every job opening that I had, three, four hundred people would apply for it. And so it was not a problem to find people. Today we'll have about 12 people apply for a job. I left there in 2014, so just a little over 10 years later, it has dropped that significantly.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 0:46

In this episode, you'll learn why student behavior, not workload, or pay, is the number one reason teachers are walking out. The specific small changes Suzanne made that immediately made her staff feel heard, and how her leadership academy is rebuilding a pipeline of campus principals from within. I'm Dr. Matthew Flippin, and this is Transformational Educators.

A leadership journey from classroom to human resources

Dr. Matthew Flippen 1:09

You've had such a unique leadership journey serving as a teacher, an assistant principal, principal in the same community inside of a county that now you are in a leadership role in the human resources position. So I know that perspective gives you a really deep understanding about what strong schools look like, uh, not just from a structural standpoint, but also through a people. So today what we'll do is we'll focus on what you've learned about finding, developing, and supporting great educators and leaders, if you're good with that.

Susanne Goodin 1:44

Yes, I'm absolutely good with that. That perspective of working in the same community for so long also is kind of scary because you've seen the drastic changes as well. And I hope we'll have some time to talk about that too, because that's it's so different. Just 10 years ago, you know, it was so different.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 2:04

Yes, no, that's really true. And the skills that that educators and leaders need has changed dramatically over the time that you've been an educator. So, well, let's let's get started. Let's let's back up to like

What leaders miss about the people side of education

Dr. Matthew Flippen 2:16

when you were early in your in your career and just seeing, you know, the the from going from classroom to principal, um, you know, what is it that you learn that is most uh important about the people side of education?

Susanne Goodin 2:32

I think that's the part that I was ill-prepared for. I I learned by doing, I was a teacher and then an assistant principal. And when I got my first principal job, I was 29 years old. Um, and I consider that to be pretty young. Looking back, I'm thinking, oh my goodness, they put me in charge of a whole building. But it was kindergarten and first grade only, and so elementary world for sure. And I had been a fourth grade teacher, but I had never worked with early childhood elementary children or teachers. And so learning the people was something I learned how to do very quickly because when I got my first surveys back, they were not good. Is Ms. Good and approachable? And a high percentage of the people said no. And so that really hurt my heart. And I thought, what? No, I am approaching, they can talk to me. But I had to self-reflect about why do they feel that way? Why do they feel like I'm not approachable? What can I do differently? And what I discovered was I was running down the hallway to get things done. And I wasn't stopping and asking about their family or asking about their husband who had recently been ill, or checking in on my people. And as a result, they felt like I was somebody they couldn't talk to. And so I think that year one, what I learned more than anything else is don't let the surveys hurt your feelings, do surveys so that you can get honest feedback and then use it to self-reflect because they were right. I was running to do the job and I did a good job at the job, but I wasn't doing a good job with the people. I had to change my change my ways.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 4:25

Yes, yeah. Yeah. And and obviously your heart was in the right place. I think as I think many times as leaders, we have wonderful intentions, but the way we're coming across to others isn't uh isn't doesn't always reflect the message. And so what a gift that you asked the survey that gave you that insight, uh, so that you had that early enough, and that you did have the heart that said, Hey, I want to, I this isn't who I want to be. I want to be approachable. Um yeah, and why is it that you wanted to be approachable? Like why was that important?

Susanne Goodin 5:01

Well, I

Why approachable leadership starts with honest conversation

Susanne Goodin 5:02

mean, my entire career, I've stood on the fact that if we'll just talk to each other, we've just got to have professional conversations that um where we're being real, where we're being authentic, where we're talking about things that matter and we're telling our truth. And my truth might not line up with your truth, and that's okay. We don't all have to agree, but we have to be respectful of each other's opinions. And so I've tried from the get-go to be somebody that you can come and talk to me, and and I'm not gonna um hold it against you. Um, I understand that you have an opinion and I'm gonna appreciate and respect that, but I expect you to treat me the same way, you know, and respect my opinion. And so uh, you know, we teach here in Elmore County fierce conversations. I don't know if you've ever read that book by Susan Scott. And fierce conversations sounds like a um sounds mean, doesn't it?

Dr. Matthew Flippen 6:01

It sounds like warriors.

Susanne Goodin 6:02

Yeah, it's not. It's not that at all. If you look it up, um, she really talks about having intentional conversations, authentic conversations where we tell each other the truth. And it's not just about education, it's about your personal relationships and um other, you know, in businesses. I think she goes and works with like large companies, but it's a good one if you want to check it out. But the value of that and changing for the better, us just talking to each other, um, that's why I think it's important.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 6:34

Yes, yeah. And so being approachable so that so that someone can come and have an authentic, vulnerable conversation with you is a key trait, obviously, and then the leaders. So I'm thinking about how this translates over to when you were looking at recruiting, developing, and supporting your people, right? So, so translate that first leadership experience into you know what you saw were some of the gaps in uh just at starting at the campus level, you know, the recruiting and developing of team members.

Susanne Goodin 7:10

I was very fortunate that when I got the job at Quesada Elementary

How teacher hiring changed from 400 applicants to 12

Susanne Goodin 7:16

School in 2004, every job opening that I had, three, four hundred people would apply for it. And so it was not a problem to find people. And when you have that kind of pool of people, um, you are really lucky that you can put together a team that is just stellar. And so the principals today are not in that same position, not in our school district anyway. As the human resources director, I of course can see how many people apply for every job. And Casada Elementary School, it's still in existence in our school system. Today we'll have about 12 people apply for a job at the same exact school. I left there in 2014. So just a little over 10 years later, it has dropped that significantly. So supporting our people is more important than ever, and retention is more important than ever because that recruitment piece has become just for lack of a better term, a nightmare because we're all fighting for the same 15 that graduated from our local college. And so um I know that you guys are growing your own kind of vibe. You've got you guys have help and support there. And we want to try to do more of that here, retaining who we have, growing our own. And um, you know, we do try to recruit, but it's a struggle.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 8:55

Yes, yeah. Now I can imagine some of our listeners that are younger principals can't even imagine a day where there were 400 applicants uh to a position. But that that did used to happen. I don't know if that'll happen again, the way that the trend is going. So so you're right, we've got to look for strategies that uh expand the pool and uh growing team members that are internal as part of that. But you you mentioned the part about developing current staff. So so tell us a little bit about what you've seen be maybe that you implemented that was effective there, or that you've seen uh campus principals do inside the county

The teacher retention task force that gave staff a voice

Dr. Matthew Flippen 9:36

that is effective so that so that retention stays high.

Susanne Goodin 9:40

Well, what we've implemented is the teacher retention task force, we call it. I guess probably about six years ago now. I was in HR at that point as well, and and our superintendent um is really open to me coming up with new ideas and sharing them with them. So I went into his office one morning and I said, we got to do something. I'm watching TikTok last night, and every other video is teachers leaving and why they're leaving and why they don't feel supported and why they feel like this is a terrible profession. And I just don't feel that way about the profession, and it breaks my heart to see it. I don't think our people are talking to us, and I think we need them to talk to us. So we came up with a teacher retention task force where each school, and we have 18, they vote on who their person will be to come over and be on the task force. And then we, I mean, really, all we do is have frank, open conversations about why don't you like working here? What could we do to make it better? Um, what do you think we need to change? And then based on how those conversations flow determines on who I set up meetings with them. Are they gonna meet with CM Child Nutrition? Are they gonna meet with the curriculum department because they're upset about assessments? Are they gonna meet with our superintendent and our board because they think we need, you know, more coverage for our English as a second language babies? You know, what is the problem? And then I facilitate getting them to talk to the person who can help them solve it.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 11:20

Yes, yeah. Can you share one of the areas that you identified that you've been able to

Small changes that made teachers feel heard

Dr. Matthew Flippen 11:26

improve the feedback in that area?

Susanne Goodin 11:28

Sure. Since you created that, one of the things that that the very first thing that came up is there are people in our schools doing jobs that they don't get paid for, pretty heavy lifting jobs like department head or grade level chair, where if you are the grade level chair for a department that has 16 teachers in it, that's a pretty big job to keep up with all those people. But there was no extra pay for that work. And so they asked for a department head stipend. And so now if you're the department head or you're the grade level chair, you get a stipend annually. That's one of the things that's happened. They said at the end of the nine weeks, they get very frustrated with trying to get all their grades in and their makeup work done. And um, so they asked if they could just have a half a day where it's just a a day for them to get their grades in. The board approved that. So the children release a half a day, one day at the end of the nine weeks so that the teachers can finalize grades. Um, assessment changes have been made, procedural changes have been made. I created a one of the things they said was, you know, we don't have time to find information about being an employee. You know, when I'm going out because I have to have knee surgery, I'm having to dig through a 90-page employee handbook to find out what I need to do to have my knee surgery. And so they said that's that's a struggle for us. It's a pain. So I came up with an email address, um, info lmore C O and they can email that email address and it comes directly to me. If I don't know the answer, I know usually who to forward it to to get the answer, where you can ask me any question, doesn't matter what it is, and we'll answer it. So if you need to have knee surgery, ask us to this email address. So little things like that, little changes where they feel like they were heard, because they were heard. We're trying to make their experience in Elmore County better. So not big sweeping change, um, just little things to make their experience better.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 13:40

Sure, sure. But I mean, individually, those were uh uh small things, but when you add them all up, that's a pretty significant effort uh to improve support and and retention. I totally get that. I love how you started that out saying, you know, we're not hearing from our people. I'm thinking, well, that sounds like your uh first principalship uh response that you got, which is uh, but uh we're gonna pull them in and uh and get feedback. And of course, people feel so valued when you listen and respond, right, uh, to the feedback that was given. And so it sounds like lots of lots of stakeholders felt felt listened to and and now feel supported. Have you have you been able to track a difference in retention rates since you started that task force?

Susanne Goodin 14:32

No, unfortunately, I haven't seen much improvement in retention rates, but I do a report annually that I send to all of my board members, and a lot of people are leaving education because of things that I can't fix. You know, when they we do exit interviews, we have them um

Why educators say they are leaving

Susanne Goodin 14:52

report back to us why they're leaving, and so much of the reasons why they're leaving are because of the um discipline of children and the lack of support from parents. We are also working on that, trying to tackle that and uh with a whole separate initiative. But um yeah, it's it's a struggle right now to keep people and defined people.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 15:16

Yeah, yeah. No, I understand. I understand. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. You know, there's some data that we've looked at that shows that the two biggest reasons people leave are our our student discipline, right? Behavior management kinds of issues, which which can be a skill. I mean, I think about you know, behavior issues that you faced when you were uh starting a teacher, you know, as a teacher year years ago versus what's today. And then is a different skill set uh required if you were gonna go be a fourth grade teacher today. Right. And so there's a uh sometimes a gap there um in the butt so that's probably the number one reason uh teachers are leaving is related to discipline. The second um category you may see this is what it's the is identified as campus culture, uh and how you feel supported, how you know, and and we look at culture and say, well, that's some way a lot of times that's a campus leader sets culture, and and and so having the right leader in place, you know, is um is important. So talk to us about when you're recruiting a new campus leader,

What to look for when hiring campus leaders

Dr. Matthew Flippen 16:28

what are the traits that you're looking for in that leader to know that they're gonna fit with? I can hear, you know, for your district, how you approach people, how your superintendent approaches people, desire to build trust, desire to build community. But walk me through what's it what's it take from a character standpoint to get hired as a a leader when for you?

Susanne Goodin 16:56

We do want to look for people who want to want to support the people in the school. And I'm trying to think the best way to say that because all that's coming to mind is people who love people. I almost hate to use this term, but almost like a cheerleader. We have seen that to be. We had a principal in a in our one of our communities who just retired last year. He was the epitome of a cheerleader. He was constantly cheering on his people, he was constantly sharing about them on social media. He would scream up from the rooftops about how great his school was and how great his kids were, and his people were the best people. He would almost like argue with you. And that is, I feel as though that works better in today's world. It might not have worked as well 20, 30 years ago, but that is what we need, I think, as leaders today. People who are gonna support people and um celebrate their achievements and help them get better. You know, when you discipline, come at it, come at it from a standpoint of, okay, I'm seeing this problem. Let me tell you what we're gonna do to try to help you improve. And so that's those are the kind of people I'm looking for.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 18:19

Yes, right, right. Obviously being approachable. Um, you know, we say being curious, right? So that curious is makes you know is what helps you helps you want to learn. Being a good communicator and collaborator. Yeah. Are you able to um promote people from within to step into those leadership roles? Are you having to recruit from outside the county?

Susanne Goodin 18:43

We recruit from outside

Growing principals from within through a leadership academy

Susanne Goodin 18:45

the county some, but we do have a lot of internal people because we have 1,400 employees. Um, over 700 of those are teachers. If they're in a leadership program, we have something we call the leadership academy. It's professional development that that I provide. And every month um we do a different topic. One month it might be human resources, one month we'll call the special ed director and she'll talk about special ed. And we go out to the schools and hold a lot of the meetings so that the principals can pop in and talk about their experience and they can meet several different principals throughout the leadership academy. And then I told you earlier I teach the book Fierce Conversations by Susan Scott, where we talk about the importance of having open communication. Um, so we are almost trying to grow our own leaders as well. And I have, I think, 13 in the leadership academy this year. And so, yes, a lot of our positions will be hired by people who have already proven themselves in our school system um that they're good teachers and good communicators and they come to work and you know, all of those things. But we also do consider people from outside the school system and hire we hired quite a few from outside the school system.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 20:03

Yes, y'all, I love the intentionality of the academy and uh approach that you're looking for because that that um that contributes to success, yeah, for sure. Well, um when we're looking at backing up to just talking about retaining great teachers, uh, and you mentioned this culture of this one uh principal that uh retired, unfortunately.

Susanne Goodin 20:24

Uh yeah, I'm not happy about that retirement, right?

Dr. Matthew Flippen 20:29

Yeah, yeah. Uh but sometimes it's you know, you can't do anything about it. Like uh but you know, when you look at other campuses then and uh are you able to see the connection between culture, strength of culture, and uh and turnover.

Susanne Goodin 20:46

You know, I can't make with the data that I have pulled, it's really hard for me to make a direct connection between

What retention data reveals about culture and discipline

Susanne Goodin 20:54

culture. I do believe we have some principles that are better at culture than others. It's really hard for me to answer that because I pulled the retention data last year and I was really surprised by the numbers. The places that I thought um would just be the greatest place, and nobody would ever want to leave, that seems like the happiest place on earth to me, their numbers were actually kind of high. And so my data wasn't correlating. Sure. And I really truly have to believe that it's the discipline at the school is what's driving our people out. Um, if and even as supportive as I believe that administrator is and constantly backing their teachers up and trying to help, you know, um, when it's causing an interruption to instruction, pulling that child to work with him or her to help the instruction go on in the classroom, I see all that happening. I would expect retention to be better at those places, but we still have turnover that I'm struggling to explain, really.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 21:58

Yeah, yeah. Well, and And when you think about turnover, there's retiring because you've reached the age. So that can happen. But I were you able to kind of exclude what you would call normal retirement. Because I think about normal turnover is supposed to be in like the eight percent, eight to ten percent range, just given where people are in their in their careers. Um but I were you able to see, you know, if what do you would call abnormal?

Susanne Goodin 22:28

Right. Well, because I do the report where I write down each person that retired or resigned and why. Right does help me kind of get a better picture. And the that we have a lot of military, we're close to Montgomery, Alabama, which has, you know, a big military base. So we have lots of transition in and out as well because of that. A lot of our teachers might be married to someone who works, you know, at the military base. And so I see a lot of moving. The part that bothers me the most is in 2004, when I became a principal, the thought of a teacher leaving mid-year was unheard of. Like you didn't leave your babies in the middle of the year. Um, no,

The midyear resignations that changed the conversation

Susanne Goodin 23:13

I'm gonna stick it out till May and then I'm leaving. This year I had three kindergarten teachers quit the first week of school. And when you ask them why, it's behavior. They they just the the children came in with no skill set on how to do school, which would be a good argument for pre-K, right? Um but a free pre-K. But the teachers just were new and ill prepared to deal with what they were seeing. Far worse behaviors than children coming to kindergarten not potty trained. You know, what you know, that things happen now that did not happen before. And I feel like those things are and I don't those things are exasperating the situation, and I don't those are things I don't know how to fix without trying to support parents, you know, with maybe a pre-K program.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 24:11

Suzanne, you were sharing about um kindergartners coming to school not potty trained, and actually that's very common. Uh, you know, and it's a shock to people that have, you know, came through school in a different age. And uh, but today uh there is a a base level that there are a lot of children missing. And uh and so the need for schools to to do more parenting or training of parents uh it is a real thing for sure. And I can only imagine being fresh out of college and stepping into a kindergarten classroom ready to teach and realizing that uh that children aren't prepared, you know, where you would where you think that you know that that they should be. Now that is part of the reason why we think the teacher's assistant, the paraprofessional, is a great candidate uh to step in those roles because you know, average age of you know is is later, right? You know, I think for our students it's 35 years old, and so they've raised their own children in most cases to some some point, and uh and they've worked in the school in some capacity, and so they they know what they're what they're getting into. But that is a that is a real challenge. And I'm not sure full preschool is a solution. I think that but something that would say kid camp, I mean something that's like get prepped for kindergarten, and here's a way we're gonna do that. Um here's minimum milestones. I you know, I'm not sure how to best best make that happen, but um, but you know, children if they come in behind in kindergarten, you're playing catch up in a way. Um as I don't know enough about Alabama. Is there funding being discussed for universal pre-K?

Susanne Goodin 26:05

Well, we have we do have a pre-K program in Alabama.

Why pre-K access matters for kindergarten readiness

Dr. Matthew Flippen 26:09

Okay.

Susanne Goodin 26:10

Um, and it is voluntary, whether or not it's grant-based. And we do participate. We actually have 10 pre-K programs in the Elmore County Public Schools, but each classroom holds 18. And it's a lotter lottery system, and so you know, just whether or not your name's drawn out of a hat, and because it's free, everybody applies for it. And so it's it's not always our neediest children who are involved in it.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 26:42

Yeah, you have 18, but you might need a hundred, it sounds like that's yeah, that's kind of my point that can't let everybody in.

Susanne Goodin 26:50

And and really if it if it were for everyone, then we could um you know make a grab on the children who really need it the most.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 27:00

Yes, yeah, yeah, I understand that. Yeah, I love I love your your heart for for your team and for the children. Obviously, it's gonna be hard for them to catch up, you know, when they're starting, starting behind. When we talk about when you're helping your leaders that are facing these challenges, um, you know, what have and I'm thinking about the campus principal, right? So they're they're calling you saying, hey, I, you know, I just had people leave. How how can you help me? Um what are some of the things you found provide them support as a campus principal? Because I know a lot of campus principals, in fact, I think disproportionately campus principals are leaving the profession, uh, not even greater numbers. Um, what have you found is helping them sustain?

Susanne Goodin 27:47

I think one of the things we've done that have helped us is retired

How retired mentor teachers support principals in crisis

Susanne Goodin 27:52

teachers, we've been contracting with them. So, and it helps the retired teacher as well. So when they retire, um, I I call them mentors, retire my my retired mentors. And we hire them and we just pay them an hourly rate. You don't have to pay insurance, and so it's cheaper for the school system. And when a kindergarten teacher leaves the first week of school, I already have a hired mentor teacher who can jump in and help us, at least until we can get someone else hired. You know, if we can't get anybody else hired, they can at least consistently teach the math and the reading, you know, do the two-hour block of most important instruction in the morning. So that's the way we've been trying to help is support our principals, is just give them people that they need to survive when something like that occurs, which you know the first week of school losing the kindergarten teacher is a is just a mess. And that's just one example of things that happen. Trying to have people on hand that can jump in, that have the experience, that can make things happen. And that's been really helpful for us. They were hired to be mentors to our brand new teachers, and they do that work. But they also sometimes jump in in those odd situations where we just need some help, and that helps the principal, you know, get their footing so they can handle the problem.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 29:21

Yeah, that's great. I mean, because some people will think turn to long kind of a the long-term sub-model, but that's not necessarily an internal person that's proven and experienced. And so I love the idea of using mentor teachers that have been recontracted

Monthly development for principals and assistant principals

Dr. Matthew Flippen 29:37

to help in that. I think that's a I think that's a great strategy. Um do principals have any opportunities to get together and just share best practices, get encouragement, uh, grow together that the district or you or for someone.

Susanne Goodin 29:54

We do professional development for our principals and assistant principals once per month. And so we usually do some kind of a book study. Right now we're our book study is atomic habits and how that applies uh to school leadership. And so that's been a fun one. We've had a good time with that. But we provide them some kind of PD depending on um, well, we survey them and ask them, what do you want to learn more about? Or if we've got situations, you know, where I felt like, okay, they really kind of need to know about this and be prepared for this. So yeah, we do that once a month and we give them like an hour lunch break so that they can go and eat together. And I oftentimes go with some of them. And so that's that's a fun day usually for all of us to get together.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 30:44

Yeah. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Well, when you when you think about

The Heart of the School and sharing district stories

Dr. Matthew Flippen 30:49

just the environments that you've that you worked in or led or that you've seen today, what is really a highlight uh story that you like to share about uh a positive thing going on in the in the in the district right now?

Susanne Goodin 31:03

I think the thing I've been most excited about, and after 30 years, I needed something to be excited about. I think I I I hit kind of low points where I'm like, what new and what can we do to make things better to get me excited about my work? And that happened this year. Um we started a YouTube channel called The Heart of the School, and as a part of it, we are doing a podcast. The entire purpose of it is to interview people who work in the Elmore County public school system. And I mean everybody. Um, anybody who's willing to come on my podcast, and I had over a hundred sign up. Wow. Um, yes, enough guests for years. Years working. Yeah, because we put ours out every two weeks. So I had so much interest and I love that. I love that they want to tell their story. I love that they want to tell the heart that they have for the students in Elmore County and the work that they do. Bus drivers, cafeteria workers, custodians, teachers, aides, principals, district leadership. I spoke with a judge who handles our attendance, our treatment sea cases. And so, you know, we might cast a wider net later, but the point right now is the people in Elmore County need to know how the employees of the school system feel about their job and working with their children. And so it's just getting our story out. Um, and so that is something that I'm excited about in our school system right now. And hopefully it'll be a way to get parents maybe to come on the podcast and talk about ways that we could communicate better. Um, I can just see this spiraling in a good way in so many different directions to help us. And so that's what we've got going on right now. And so I'd like for you to check it out if time permits.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 32:59

Yes, yeah. Please, uh, what's the um what is the name of the podcast? We'll be sure to include that. The heart, the heart of the school. The heart of the school. Okay, fantastic. And and it's on Elmore County um school, school district. So fantastic. We'll be sure to include that in the in the show notes. So, Suzanne, I really appreciate you taking time to be with us uh today. I mean, your your heart for people, uh, your heart for children that you refer to as your babies. Uh, I love that. And it really shows how you feel responsible for them as a parent, as a mother, as a grandmother. Uh, I know you have some grandchildren in the in the district now uh yourself. And uh and you know what a blessing that is. But you know, this deep commitment uh to seeing people be successful, I I see that in in you as a leader. So I just commend you for for staying in that through diff through difficult times. I mean, post-COVID has been a hard, hard time still, and uh, and the the effects of that season are uh are going to be felt for for a while. So thank you for for staying in the staying in the fight, having fierce uh conversations and uh and continue continuing to lead.

Susanne Goodin 34:13

So thank you. I appreciate I appreciate the opportunity to have a voice and share with you today.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 34:19

Yeah, absolutely. Well, if you found today's episode valuable, please share it with a colleague or educator that would benefit. And if you haven't already, please follow the podcast, uh, Transformational Educators so you never miss an episode. And until next time, keep leading with purpose and building schools where both students and educators thrive. If today's conversation gave you fresh insight or inspired you to lead with purpose, please follow the show and tell a friend. It helps us reach more educators who want to make a difference. For more stories, resources, and tools to support your leadership journey, visit Graceland.edu. Until next time, keep leading with courage and care. If you want to keep learning about transformational strategies in education, click the next video.