How the Lowest-Rated School Nearly Became Exemplary in Two Years ft. Dr. Karen Engle | Transformational Educators Ep. 40

School leaders rebuilding low-morale staff cultures learn from Dr. Karen Engle how strategic restraint outperforms visible action when trust is broken.

As superintendent of Clear Creek ISD, Engle inherited a discouraged staff worn down by repeated leadership change, and her instinct to push new initiatives would have buried any chance of recovery. Instead, she sat with every teacher and listened before acting, then targeted small early wins to prove things were different. That listen-learn-respond sequence converted checked-out teachers counting days to retirement into PLC leaders by year one, and staff ownership of culture drove the student outcomes that followed.

When Engle arrived at Clear Creek ISD, she did not launch initiatives or announce priorities. She scheduled individual conversations with every teacher, collecting ground-level frustration before committing to any direction. From that listening phase, she identified which early wins were achievable quickly enough to break the skepticism cycle. Within year one, teachers who had mentally clocked out were running Professional Learning Communities. The cultural ownership that followed was not a side effect of her leadership approach but the primary outcome she designed for, and student results improved because staff were invested rather than compliant.

What Engle's experience surfaces for struggling campuses is the cost of credibility debt accumulated through revolving leadership. Each new leader who arrives with a reform agenda before earning relational capital adds to that debt, making the next person's job harder regardless of idea quality. Rebuilding requires tolerance for an awkward early period when nothing visible is happening, because that invisible trust-building is what makes any subsequent action land. Leaders who measure progress in conversations rather than initiatives find that staff engagement becomes self-sustaining without waiting for formal accountability systems to force it.

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Transcript

Coming up...

Dr. Matthew Flippen 0:32

Hi everyone, Dr. Matthew Flippen here. Today we're revisiting one of the clearest examples of school transformation that we've featured on Transformational Educators. My conversation with Dr. Karen Engle, Superintendent of Clear Creek ISD. Dr. Engle shares how she rebuilt trust with the discouraged staff, created early wins, and used a simple leadership approach. Listen, learn, and respond. The result was not only stronger student outcomes, but a culture the staff truly owned. If you are trying to rebuild trust, restore confidence, or lead change in a struggling school, this conversation will give you a practical place to begin. Watch. And if this resonates, please like, share, and subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next. We'll be back soon with a brand new conversation. Thanks

Meet Dr. Karen Engle and the Clearview Campus

Dr. Matthew Flippen 1:22

for being here. Today on the podcast, Dr. Karen Engle. Dr. Engle is the superintendent of Clear Creek ISD, where she has dedicated most of her career to building strong relationships and leading with trust and purpose. She was recognized as a finalist for the HEB Excellence in Education Award, and her leadership is known for turning struggling schools into thriving campuses through a servant leadership model. Today we'll explore how she transformed Clearview, an at-risk 7th through 12th campus on the brink of failure by listening, learning, and responding to staff and student needs. By the end of this episode, you'll walk away with a clear framework for building trust, shifting culture, and leading sustainable change in any school community. Welcome to Transformational Educators, where we help school leaders create lasting change by sharing powerful, real-world stories of servant leadership and practical strategies for transformation. I'm your host, Matthew Flippen, president of Graceland University, where we equip school leaders to make a lasting impact. Dr. Engle, I have admired that uh you have been in this district for a majority of your career and built such strong relationships that now you have been nominated, I think it's two years ago, to be superintendent and have been in that role. So fantastic. Congratulations on that. I also know that you are a finalist in the HUB Excellence Award. I'm sure there are many other accolades that you have have won. But today we are gonna be talking about a campus that you led that maybe was hurting when you arrived, and over the time that you were there that that changed into a campus that was that was thriving in some way. So I'm really excited to hear the process that you guided that through and how you led uh that transformation. So thank you again for being here.

Dr. Karen Engle 3:22

Absolutely. So the name of the campus is Clearview, and it was a seventh through twelfth grade alternative campus. We have a district of about 40,000 students. Wow. But this campus is about 300, the time 350, and all of the students were basically at risk. They'd either failed a grade, failed a state assessment, then you know, something that caused them to be at risk, multiple discipline issues and DAP. So they had to apply to go to Clearview. It's an application only, but once they were accepted, then we did everything we could to help them be successful. But they all came into that campus from a um background of I'd say less than success in school. If you were okay.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 4:13

So in a way, they'd had a a failed experience. Correct. They were struggling and they needed to be there, but they still had to apply. Yes, okay.

Dr. Karen Engle 4:23

Because if they didn't want to be there, it wasn't gonna work. So they had to apply. It's almost like, you know, you have to want to get better and you have to want to be successful because it's difficult, it's not their home campus. So they had to travel to this special location, smaller class sizes, a lot of focus um on the individual student and a lot of counseling support, you know, to help them to be successful.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 4:49

I love that you said you have to want to get better. That's not just true for children. Adults need to want to get better as

What was the staff culture like when you arrived?

Dr. Matthew Flippen 4:56

well. So, what was the culture like among the staff when you arrived?

Dr. Karen Engle 5:01

Unfortunately, they'd had some turnover and leadership multiple times. Um, the culture was almost like the kids. It was kind of interesting that they felt like there wasn't a culture of success, almost a a a feeling of failure. They all there was a malaise, I guess, if you will. It did not feel like a regular campus. It feeled very depressing, if you will, to me. Um, the academic scores were not good. Now keep in mind these kids are there because they need to be academically successful. Okay. And this the campus was on regular accountability and it was one student away from unacceptable.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 5:43

Okay. Wow. Wow. That's really yeah, that sounds challenging. That sounds challenging. Yeah, so I can imagine that when you've had leader turnover, when you arrive, the staff may be thinking, how long is she gonna stay? And so they're probably mistrusting of you and the things you want to implement. Was that what you found?

Dr. Karen Engle 6:04

Most definitely.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 6:05

Okay.

Dr. Karen Engle 6:06

Very mistrusting, very um they had no confidence. So my background moving into that position, I've taught high school and and I ended up as a high school principal. Okay. But before I went to this campus, I was an elementary principal. So they didn't really give me a lot of credit for that high school background. They're thinking this elementary lady knows nothing except she's too positive. Very, very mistrusting. It was not, it was discouraging.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 6:37

Okay. That sounds like you might have gone home a few nights and wondered why am I at this place?

Dr. Karen Engle 6:45

I did. Yeah.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 6:46

And had maybe had a shoulder to cry on a few times.

How did you start to build trust and create early wins?

Dr. Matthew Flippen 6:49

So, how did you start to build trust? What started the change where they did start to believe, hey, she's not just full of confidence?

Dr. Karen Engle 7:00

Yeah, you know, I I really focused first on the campus culture, you know, what is it, and realized pretty quickly we were in a bad situation. So I looked for what I call low-hanging fruit or very quick wins. What are some things that you can do to turn this around? And one thing I did that summer, I mean, I came in June and I switched the master schedule to go from seven periods for the kids to eight periods because they had all failed. I mean, there was a there was a real concern about academic achievement. So I changed the master schedule and double blocked some things that they needed more, gave them more opportunity to graduate and get the support they needed. Okay. So I did that. So gave a little little fewer minutes in every class, but enough time and more time for kids to be successful. And then I just really something we've been doing now on the district level, um, but listened to the to those teachers. I brought those department heads in right away and said, what do we need to do? Kind of brought them together, brought them calachis and said, hey, you know, what can we do to work together? So really um tapped in on what the what the leadership on the campus felt like we could do. And then I started doing some things pretty quickly. I'd say one of the probably high-leverage events, and I didn't plan it, they had a grant um through an organization, and the grant did not give the teachers a lot of credibility. There was a consultant that came in and was kind of degrading. And the first time I I experienced this, I was really taken aback. It's like that's not okay. And the grant was for like 50,000. So we had to kind of finish out the contract, and we didn't have time for that. I'm telling you, it was not gonna be good for the staff. And so after the second time the grant lady came, I had the staff write, just give a review, a summary of the experience, of the professional learning experience, and I gave it to the grant lady. It was, I didn't even look at it, and it was so bad that they didn't want to come back. We just kind of ended the contract and we didn't need it. It was going, it was bringing them down. I know that's kind of confusing, but it was bringing them down. It was they were the people were coming in from the outside and they were disrespecting or degrading the abilities of the staff, and so they felt like they couldn't do it, and the grand people felt like they didn't do it. So the first thing I had to do is like remove that grant people that that person, the consultant, it just didn't work well. And so we took the money loss, and I just said, hey, we've we've got enough, we're good. And then we started from scratch from the people in the organization.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 9:56

Sure.

Dr. Karen Engle 9:56

The outside wasn't helping. We needed to build them up from the inside. Okay.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 10:00

You know, Karen, I appreciate your sensitivity to uh culture, and you've mentioned the way it felt when you were there. And part of that is how how uh dignified people or pe or respected people feel for the work that they're doing. And it and it is something fragile that we can easily be condescending or talk down when really we need to be lifting up coaching, right, versus demeaning. And uh and I can imagine how removing a negative uh person uh from that, uh who was a perceived expert. Uh yeah, right? Yeah, um put one one some people over to you because I would imagine some of the staff was thankful to not so you so that was a pretty quick whim. Big win.

Dr. Karen Engle 10:49

It was very quick within a few minutes. Yes, and then I said, Okay, we can do this. So we kind of got the external out. Now you gotta build it from the from the people that you had. What can we do to build this up? And really from then on, they felt like they could do it, you know, started to say, we don't need outside health. Y'all are good enough. That was the message.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 11:14

That's so confidence building.

Dr. Karen Engle 11:16

Yeah, and I just I mean, it happened on to it. I didn't know. I was just not happy with the way they we were being treated. And so I felt we don't need that. You don't have time. You know, I think that's one thing that I've learned is if you need to do something and it's you can do it, don't wait, don't be tied to a schedule. I mean, we live in a in a time where you have to make, you have to be flexible and responsive. So I would say, um, really,

The three word leadership framework that still drives results today

Dr. Karen Engle 11:45

and I go back to three words listen, then learn and respond. Yes. And that is almost what we live by at that building, at the district level. Listen, learn, and then respond and don't wait.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 11:59

Absolutely. Yeah, I think about you know, the model that we are framing for this program, this masters in transformational leadership, is really about right, build a foundation of relationships, which you do through listening, right? This curiosity of learning, which is the assessment piece, we would say, now that you've got some trusted people, let's honestly look at what we can do better, how can we improve, right? And then what was the third? Respond. Respond. That's right. So now let's implement the strategy that we can know the build on. Of course, reassessing as as we go. But I think I love that that those three pieces are clear and easy. And you said you're still using that today.

Dr. Karen Engle 12:42

At the district level, we had some we had some culture decline and we came in, listen, learn, and then respond. Because if you come in and you respond, don't assume you know what's happening. Sure. That's problematic, you know. But if you listen, build those relationships, learn what's happening, then you can make good decisions, and usually in collaboration with your team.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 13:04

Absolutely. You know, for sure. Well, and you know, the truth is is that the that approach is actually backed by neuroscience about just how people resp respond. So the brain, you know, children come in the classrooms with this same resistance, you don't know me, you don't really have a right to teach me. But once they start to feel safe, which is the listen, right, and learn aspect of that, then they start to start to learn as well.

From last in the district to nearly exemplary in two years

Dr. Matthew Flippen 13:29

So the campus that you were on um was near the the bottom when you got there. And then you said you were there out within the two years. Two years. And by the end of that time, what did it look like this?

Dr. Karen Engle 13:42

Yes, and I will say we were the lowest rated campus in the district. Okay. Um we have 45 campuses. Okay. So it's not good.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 13:50

We were number 45.

Dr. Karen Engle 13:51

Yeah, number 45. But at the end of the, or at that time, maybe there were there weren't quite there, but probably 42, but still we've grown a little bit. But then um at the at the end of two years, we were one student away from um exemplary or an A. Okay.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 14:09

Fantastic, fantastic. And what was the staff culture like at that point?

Dr. Karen Engle 14:13

Oh my gosh. They were so happy, they were so bought in. They did it, you know, it was all, it was their it was their effort. Um, so it was completely different, and it's really always remained at that level. I moved to uh to open a high school after that, but the but the campus itself has maintained that um what I'd call that sense of self-efficacy with the entire staff.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 14:41

That's outstanding. Now, I would assume they rioted when you said you were gonna leave, because I'm sure they deeply loved you at that point.

Dr. Karen Engle 14:47

Yeah, it was it was hard to leave because I love that that campus.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 14:51

But you know what we've noticed about um leaders that guide campuses through transformation that sustains they do exactly this piece that you just highlighted, which is the staff owns the transformation that has occurred. It's not hero driven.

Dr. Karen Engle 15:08

Right. Right.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 15:09

The the heroes are the teachers. Absolutely. And the leaders serve as the guide. Right, we're gonna guide you through this process with accountability and the other things that go with that. But outstanding. Uh how beautiful to hear uh this story and that you've got to go on and I would assume do this again in a few places. And now at the district level, I I would ex expect that each leader knows uh that you care about them, that you're listening, learning, and responding. Responding. Uh-huh. Yes. We still do it. Yeah, to the fantastic. Well, thank you again, uh Dr. Ingel for being here. And this know I'm a fan. I am cheering for you, and if I can be any of support, you please let me know.

Dr. Karen Engle 15:51

Thank you so much.

Dr. Matthew Flippen 15:52

Thank you. Thank you so much. If today's conversation gave you fresh insight or inspired you to lead with purpose, please follow the show and tell a friend. It helps us reach more educators who want to make a difference. For more stories, resources, and tools to support your leadership journey, visit Graceland.edu. Until next time, keep leading with courage and care. If you want to keep learning about transformational strategies in education, click the next video.